Aug 18, 2016 at 7:56pm #110456
Hope you are looking into supporting new chinese VR gear, they are coming out with high resolution cheap gear.
Pimax has a PIMAX 4K UHD out for preorders, and it only costs about 300$! 3840×2160!! That is 1920x2160px per eye!
And 3Glasses has the pretty cheap D2, with 2k resolution.
And they are just coming out with a new 2k device the S1. 2880×1440.
This type of gear would make gaming proper games with HDM much more viable than any low res oculus or htc. Just need the support for them.Aug 18, 2016 at 7:58pm #110457
Forgot the review link for the Pimax:
Not advertising these things, i was just amazed to find these out as nobody is speaking about anything else then Oculus & HTC.
I thought i would have to wait at least 1-2 years for a 4k HMD.Aug 18, 2016 at 8:50pm #110460
– It has only a lcd display, which means they have a big motion blur problem/smearing, a high response time and bad colors
– The lcd is limited to 60 hz which would prevent a “immersive” experinece for most people and make many people motion sick
– It might even run below 60 hz wich would make it useless for any game/experience
– It has no real positional tracking
– The driver will be full of bugs, if it works at all
It got no attention, because it’s no competition to the other headsets and isn’t worth the 300$.
The 4k screen is just a gimmick to sell this thing, don’t waste your money for this.Aug 18, 2016 at 9:00pm #110461
The S1 has 120hz and 2k display, also i don’t think LCD is so bad as everyone is pretty much gaming on them all the time.
I would consider gaming on a low resolution a bigger bummer, than a little bit of motion blur.. that i actually don’t see even on my LCD monitor. I know its supposed to be there, but i just can see it while i play. 4k means 4megapixels per eye, it’s a huge difference compared to the oculus & htc 1.2megapixels.
I would not dismiss these things without actual user experience.
The positional tracking is pretty useless and of no interest at least for me, i don’t think vorpX supports it anyhow. And the S1 actually has that.
I would not call 4k a “gimmick”.
Also, i don’t believe that 60hz is too slow, as you rarely even hit 60fps in games. And standard frame rate for movies is under 30fps. Didn’t the DK1 have 60hz? DK2 has 75hz. Not much difference there.Aug 18, 2016 at 9:15pm #110464
There’s a reason why every major vr headset uses oled and there’s a difference between normal and vr gaming.
There were chinese vr headsets before and none of them was good or even usable.
But you can of course try them and report back, if they actually work as advertised.Aug 18, 2016 at 9:39pm #110465
I have seen good reviews of DeePoon Dk2, so i would not dismiss chinese products. It’s seems to pretty popular as cheap alternative. And it only has HD resolution.
I would not also speak of “major vr headsets” when there is like 3 of them out there. And all of them still have a pretty low resolution for gameplay. I do realize that OLED is better, but it’s all about compromises. Resolution would weight more in my cup.
Also even on the “major” headsets, there are some serious cost cuts. In the lenses, like HTC has FRESNEL lenses! That is insane in my opinion. Have you ever seen anyone use fresnel eyeglasses? Hell no. Fresnels are used in stage lighting gear, and lighthouses. Oculus has what looks like cheap one element plastic lenses. Lenses like these, pretty much defeat the benefit of having a quality display.
Like 3 Glasses is pushing out it’s 3rd model already.
Where did you get that the PIMAX 4K UHD is 60hz? I can’t find anything.
overall is hard to find any info about these, DeePoon Dk2 seems to the most popular as it’s been out for some time.
I found this one youtube channel that has some video about the 2k and 4k stuff.Aug 18, 2016 at 11:22pm #110471
The deepoon copied the driver and display, and the headtracking worked.
Everything else about it was bad.
The lenses aren’t “cost cuts”, oculus uses aspheric-fresnel hybrid lenses and even the vive lenses aren’t simple. It took years of research to get these right and fresnel was used to minimize chromatic aberration.
I’m pretty sure no cheap chinese headset has lenses that can compare to the rift/vive lenses
The 3rd model doesn’t make it better and TFT-LCD 60hz even makes it’s worse, it’s worse than google cardboard.
If it would be oled or more than 60 hz it would be way more expensive and they would advertise it. It’s definitely not oled or faster than 60 hz.
You will most likely have less sde (screen door effect) with the 4k headset, but the image will be less clear and you will most likely get motion sick because of the low framerate and lack of low persistence.
It’s like google cardboard with better resolution, some find it unusable others okay or bearable.
I don’t think it is worth the 300$, but this is only my opinion.Aug 19, 2016 at 12:27am #110475
The lenses are low cost, they try to use software to do it more cheaply. They try to correct all the lens problems in software. Everyone knows proper glass lenses cost money. And now single element lens is ever corrected enough. You need at least 3 elements to do an anastigmat lens.’
Plastic lense also scratch really easily.
I think microsoft published instructions on how to replace Oculus lenses with achromatic glass ones. Also published comparison photos that showed they were clearly far superior. Like you would assume from real glass lenses.
And fresnel lense, they are the cheapest possible alternative. Nothing i would ever use in any optical path. A clear cost cut, gotta maximize the profits. Fresnels are fit for lighting gear etc. like i said. I have plenty of experience using fresnel lenses on many different applications, but never in optical path.
The chinese things probably have the same low cost plastic lense, but not fresnels. At 300$, i don’t dream of high quality glass lenses. But with 4k resolution, it would be super nice.
And as i said, the new 3glasses S1 is actually 120hz and has 2k resolution. And there was no data about the PIMAX 4K UHD.
You really believe that 4 times more resolution equals to “less clear image” ? :) It’s a pretty simple device, you have a display and lenses. If the lenses are even close to oculus level or same, then you have a lot better image thanks to 3 extra megapixels.
Saying it’s like google cardboard, is again dumb. As there is only one phone with 4k display out there, and the processors on them can’t actually run 4k content like PC can. And “just more resolution”, that i pretty much the whole point. More resolution = better. But if you like playing games on low res..
I also think the 300$ price is really fair, compared to Oculus Cv1.. it’s 1/3 of the price. The price even included shipping. And it’s 4k. The problem is just, does it work with games etc. I have no idea. If it does, i would buy it.
The main reason in my interest for them, is the 4k. As i think the current stuff has too low resolution to put any serious money on them. They will loose all the value when they finally will have proper resolutions for actual gaming.Aug 19, 2016 at 1:32am #110476
– If you want to think the optical engineers at oculus don’t know what they’re doing and wasted years, than do so
– there are serveral comments, explaining why they didn’t use achromatic lenses, cost is the least important of those
– Most dust particles are harder than tempered glass
– The achromatic lenses were for the dk2, that is not relevant anymore and the rift doesn’t have chromatic abberation anymore
– The lenses aren’t complete fresnel lenses
– The image will be less clear because the lenses are bad, the sweet spot off , the distortion imperfect and the image upscaled
– I never said it’s like google cardboard, read it correctly
If you want to think that a chinese company can make a cheap vr headset in a few month and cares about quality or the “final Product”, than (again) do so, buy it.Aug 19, 2016 at 4:02pm #110493
Cost was the main issue using cheap lenses. That is just the way it is.
“A Fresnel lens is an optical component which can be used as a cost-effective, lightweight alternative to conventional continuous surface optics.”
And fresnels are fresnels, they are the cheapest possible way to make lenses. They can be stamped out of plastic.
It´s a product, they make it to make money. They cut cost on everything they can.
Vr gear is extremely simple, so it does not take ages to make something that works. It was merely an issue of components did not exists yet.
And like i said, the S1 is 3rd generation device from 3Glasses. It’s not like they just knock em out in a month.
It’s a big market also in China. You seem to just have the basic western exceptionalism attitude.
People are already noticing how limiting the low resolution on htc & oculus is.
I have a monitor with 1920×1200 resolution, and it fills about 1/8 of my field of view, and i can see pixels. So what happens when i fill my whole field of vision with less pixels? Does not take too much math to realize it’s not exactly optimal.
This is why, resolution is the key for all VR gear. And i would never pay 800$ for a system that is trash after one year when better devices with actually usable resolution come out. I would just lose most of my money trying to sell it for 1/2 – 1/3 of the price.
And yes, i bough DeePoon E2 for little money used. And will gladly pay 300$ for 4k device if it has some support. This is why i’m askin VorpX to support these, as they are mostly HMD with proper resolutions. I have no interest playing childish VR games with weird dongle controllers jumping in my room. I only need a high resolution HMD with head tracking, for stereoscopic 3d.
And china is the only one who is offering devices like these currently.Aug 19, 2016 at 7:30pm #110499
They use the oculus/steamvr driver and are detected as dk2, so they should “work” “out of the box”.Aug 20, 2016 at 7:51pm #110537XionorParticipant
Geforce 1080 can barely reach 90 FPS @ 1080p in Skyrim VR .
Good luck building a PC that can run 4K VR!Aug 20, 2016 at 10:13pm #110540
That shouldn’t be a problem, HDMI isn’t even powerful enough for 4k 60hz, so he wouldn’t get 4k in the first place.Aug 20, 2016 at 11:45pm #110544
You can run it on lower resolution, even at the same resolution as CV1 and HTC. But you will not have the same screen door effect as the pixels on the screen are so much smaller.
Its nice to notice, that no matter what forum you post stuff. The people who are most inclined to reply are the basic yber negative forum lurkers. The reason i do not waste time on forums, as there is always the people who says “the manual says no!”.
Also found out that the position tracking is easy to do with 3 ir leds, webcam and software like freetrack or opentrack. Usually every problem is solvable. Unless you listen to the people of the forums. Then everything is IMPOSSIBLE!Aug 21, 2016 at 9:45am #110558SzabbyParticipant
I’d like to add two notes to this conversation.
1. I don’t think it’s impossible to build 4K VR rig. Many people say it is, but that’s not true. F.e. new GTX Pascal Titan X SLI could easily handle this. I know it’s expensive, but not impossible! (unless problems occur with bandwith)
2. I wouldn’t say the commenter guys are negative, they are much more realists. I’ve also made my research when these chineese HMDs came out, but the conclusion was it’s not worth buying. So yes, in this term the 4K screen they use is still kind of a “gimmick”. You have to consider, resolution is only one piece of the puzzle! But there are others as well, like type of the panel, refresh rate and the lenses. First, LCD is NOT an option for VR. You don’t see LCD in any major HMD manufacturers’ products and this is not an accident. Secondly, 60 Hz is far too low! DK1 was 60 Hz and it was only enough to show a little piece of how VR will work some time in the future. Thirdly, proper lenses are extremely important (f.e. to reduce blur, chromatic aberraion etc.). And in these chineese products lenses are not anywhere close to what Oculus uses. So all in all, usable 4K VR is NOT here yet, no matter, how chineese hype their new products. There are dosens of HMD manufacturers out there already, and if 4K was a reasonable option at present, they’d have put their 4K solutions onto market already, trust me.
I have high hopes about Samsung’s upcoming S8 4K screen. If it can handle 90 Hz or more, than you will see high quality 4K HMDs by late 2017 or in 2018.
Untill than the most I expect is CV2 with full HD per eye (4K in total) at 120 Hz. That’d be the first “worth buying” HMD product in my opinion. Unless Star VR would be released in the near future…
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