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Ah! My bad, I thought we could report incompatible unsupported games here too!
And by “we” I meant that since its a Unity game, many other games might suffer a similar issues, but I might not know, so other users might already know a “profile to clone to fix” kind of deal.
If you have time to go into it of course, awesome! But your time is precious after all and the bug very small, so I don’t want to waste your time either Ralf!
@Benedict81
Oops, disregard my last message. Seems like 25.1.1 fixed that issue by 90%.
It looks now great, even when running lower resolutions like 2160p, the image is rendering properly and its perfect!Wait, half disregard my last message!!
I didn’t realize there was a 25.1.1 version since an update prompt didn’t pop up! I did all my last message’s tests on the older v24.
I rerun everything on the new one, and although it isn’t perfect, it is WAY better now, so whatever you touched, it did work to some degree @Ralf!
I’d say we’re easy 25-50% higher resolution now, at 3000×3000 guessing by eye? Up from like… 2160!
This is definitely on the playable side, sure it isn’t perfect, but text isn’t poking my eyes out anymore, and putting massive anti-aliasing seems to help lots.I did the Baldur’s Gate 3 test again, and now the image on the SteamVR menu and the VorpX one are soooo close, it is nitpicking to complain about it!
Thanks @Ralf!
Could you change the title of this thread to something like [SOLVED]Won’t be recommending VorpX anymore due to low resolution bug :(@Benedict81 Nah, it happens in other HMDs as well like the MeganeX8K. I think its a bug on VorpX side that Ralf seems to have issues checking out (since on his side it looks like its working as it should).
@Boblekobold
Like I told you in other cases… 2880p is not even close to enough resolution, 5500p is still not enough resolution (although it really is getting to heavy diminishing returns there). So people with good eyesight can see a very obvious very clear difference (after all, its almost twice the amount of pixels)@Ralf
I gave it one more go and… no luck there is just no way to make it work.I’m still pretty upset about it since it feels its so close to work, but it doesn’t.
For example, while running Baldur’s Gate 3, the game in VorpX will look low res (around 2160p), but when pushing the menu button on the controller, which opens the SteamVR’s menu and shows your desktop (which now has the game since its windowed at 4860p), the actual 2D image that is cloned that shows you the desktop… that one actually IS showing the full 4680p resolution and will look great! (just not 3D). Incredibly infuriating stuff :(
In any case, please tell us when and if you plan to do “VorpX2:Electricboogaloo” so we can support you once more properly! :D
Exactly, we are on the same page!
No problem, these things take time if they get ever fixed at all. I’m just happy to know you’re giving it another go.
And yeah, top tier specked PC due to work is a privilege not many have. Although as resolutions on HMDs climb, people playing older games should definitely get to those quite easily.I suspect it won’t go much further than ~5.5k though, since that PPD density equals the current average 4K size monitor, so… from then on its only heavy diminishing returns. I play some simpler games super sampled at around 7 or 7.5k, and literally can’t see aliasing at all.
I see! That is fair, the monthly rhythm thing doesn’t suit all software developers or softwares, especially if you are selling something on the side!
I think Praydog (the UEVR guy) had the same feeling and has a patreon, but just with no updates there ever? But his software is also free, so it does make sense like you said.
Plus, surely doing so would bring more money to your hands… together with more headaches (there is no escaping that! hahah)Maybe something more like Ko-Fi would be more your jam, its like 5% per donation, and its a one time thing last time I heard, so its a bit more no strings attached.
In any case, that’s exactly what I was thinking, a decade of software updates for a couple bucks is insane. I mean, many people on sites like patreon and such spend that much on a project every 4 months or 8months ($10 and $5 pledges).
Some devs would just release “VorpX V2 electric boogaloo”, but that is a whole can of worms in itself.
Buying a second license sounds fair after almost a decade to be honest, especially with the ridiculous amount of hours I’ve used it.In any case, hopefully we can get to the bottom of this!
Thank you so much, like always.
I know you don’t like talking about this, but if you had a Patreon or something like that, I would definitely support you there. I mean, I bought VorpX now what… like… 8 or 9 years ago? I can’t even remember lol
I tried supporting you by good word of mouth online everywhere I talk about VR basically though, and forcing all my friends to buy it hahah!And nah man, I totally get you, no worries. I’ve been there too, had a very bad graphics whore phase hahaha
But after all, that’s why I am a 3D game artist living in Japan at all nowadays!Its more of a, like we say in Spanish “Comparisons are odious” kind of deal?
As in… I can use VorpX’s virtual display to run games at 4860p… in BigScreen!
And it will look FABULOUSLY clear (not 3D or awesome VR enabled though).
But trying to get it to run on actual VorpX will kneecap half the resolution out of it… x_xI just read your extra message!
BTW: Even if for whatever reason your headset target “only” is 3072p, rendering the game at soemtihng higher than that would still give you better image quality since vorpX would take the higher res input and downsample it to the headset target res. Provided vorpX actually gets 5500p in the first place that is.
Somehow… that doesn’t apply either!
BG3 looks better at 2160p, than any higher resolution! Aliasing becomes REALLY intense for some reason.Things like hair for example will become especially intense and oversharpened.
(I checked this with and without any FSR settings, of course)Thanks again for your time replying. I really appreciate you taking this issue seriously.
Simply sending the res to the headset that you dial in in SteamVR no matter what the actual game res is doesn’t make sense.
Yes, I know. I’m just saying it so I could try and force the resolution manually, instead of having an arbitrarily “double the vertical resolution” setting.
I do that with BigsScreen for example. Even when watching a 1080p movie, or playing some old flat game, I will run native resolution (5500p), even if it is to get the dark environment or the screen borders to have 0 aliasing.Like said above, you have to look elsewhere to pinpoint your issue. There is no such thing as a “2160p wall” in vorpX.
I am aware, that is the tragic part. Unless its something driver or hardware/HMD specific, I can’t pinpoint anywhere else since there are 0 issues elsewhere, its only VorpX failing me (which to be honest, its the magic software that made me go and spend $2k on a new HMD at all) :S
If I had another high resolution HMD over 3000p around, I would test it there, but I only have my VP1 that is 1600p, which won’t do.The issues other people with higher than 3000×3000 per eye HMDs (mostly Pimax users) seem to match closely my experience as well, so I suspect everyone with high resolution HMDs has this issue. As more and more high resolution HMDs come in, this issue seems like it will become more and more prevalent.
A game rendered at 1080p doesn’t look better just because you copy it to a 5500p texture before sending it to the headset obviously.
We agree in that of course. As long as the image is wrapped around your head or, the resolution of your HMD has a higher PPD than the screen in front you with the game, it should make barely any difference.
The problem here is… we are DEFINITELY copying a 4860p game image into a 3000p texture before sending it to the headset.
Not only that, but because I am watching that using the floating VorpX display, now we are rendering what is visible in my FOV of a downscaled 4860p game image at 3000p.
So, we are squishing that 4860p image into around 2000p in front of my eyes. That’s why aliasing is so aggravating.That is also why when I lean in, I can see way more detail that I couldn’t see before
Also, just in case, yes VRAM bumps up as it should as I scale up resolution over 2160p (in fact, BG3 at 4860p is almost maxing out my 24GB of VRAM, which is about double what it consumes at 2160p).Your “2160p wall” sounds suspiciously as if the game actually runs at your monitor’s res although you think it doesn’t.
Indeed, I thought that too, and it might be the root cause of this issue. If I had a lower(or higher) resolution monitor I would try that theory by plugging only that other monitor in, but I sadly can’t.
The best way I could control for that on the tests I already did was:
1. Start VorpX (virtual display gets enabled)
2. Set Virtual display resolution to 4860p.
3. Start SteamVR and disconnect all my 2160p displays so only VorpX’s Virtual display is enabled.
4. Start the game making sure that the only display windows (and the game) detects is VorpX’s 4860p monitor.
5. Change the resolution of the game to 4860p and restart (or make sure the resolution is already at 4860p or any other higher number than 2160p).To deal with such potential issues, either run games windowed or (assuming you already have set up a high enough custom resolution), try setting your desktop res to it before launching the game.
I already did that, of course. In fact, all the tests I ran I did try in windowed mode first. Then after it didn’t work, I started to experiment and tried fullscreen and borderless modes without any success (which kind of makes sense).
If a game actually runs at 5500p, vorpX creates a 5500p headset render target. You wouldn’t even be able to let it create something smaller than that even if you wanted when the image vorpX receives is actally a 5500p image.
I’m 100% sure that is not happening in my computer though. The games and the image VorpX is receiving, are higher than 3000p. This is the core of the issue, which you in your own tests proved that VorpX IS able to pull off (that’s why I said it infuriated me!). Because again, the game window inside VorpX HAS 4860p of detail in it.
-VRAM reading matches 4860p
-Performance matches 4860p
-Visually checking the image by leaning in confirms its 4860p.
And yet… the actual HMD is only rendering at that fixed maxed 2781×3072 resolution, so its absolutely ignoring that headset render target if its being sent. :SMaybe this is a Virtual Display/Windows issue?
I’m going to try to create a virtual display through other means, and use that instead of the VorpX one, I’ll report back once I do so, but I don’t have much faith in it either.In any case, I’m almost convinced that if we don’t solve this here… as the next wave of HMDs come in and we start getting over 3000p resolution, people will start complaining, since right now its only affecting high tier HMDs.
Sorry for the late reply, crazy busy weeks! I’ve been testing thoroughly to give you as much information as possible.
Thanks for taking the time to check on this issue, I really appreciate it!
Damn, it working on your side almost makes it more infuriating.
I’m very hopeful we will be able to figure it out though, it would make my year!For this, I hope FPSVR’s “detect resolution” will work good enough.
Its results seem to match my visual experience accurately (visual and performance wise).>> Might be the game not actually running at the desired res,
Definitely not, made exhaustively sure this isn’t the case.>> might be your headset’s software doing weird stuff or whatever.
This might be a cause for it, its an obscure HMD, but it would be an issue exclusive to VorpX then, since no other game, or even UEVR are affected by it at all.
This HMD has 2 different drivers for the HMD. The official one by the makers of the HMD, which is their custom non-SteamVR non-OpenXR drivers. And another one (the one I use most), that is a written from the ground up custom driver that turns the HMD into a native SteamVR HMD. Testing by alternating both drivers shows no difference in VorpX behavior.I followed your instructions the best I could. Starting slow and steady.
Ridiculously low resolutions (like 720p), seem to make it worse since the HMD will run at that, double 720p. The problems start always when I try to go over 2160p. It just won’t happen.
All games running with no upscaler shenanigans, or AI enhancement of any sort, or supersampling like you asked.
Using only as a monitor, the virtual one VorpX creates running at 8640×4860. (I tested also with my regular 4K monitor, resolutions there won’t go over 2160p, so not much point to it).After playing around, this is the info I can give you:
HMD’s panel resolution per eye: 3552×3840
SteamVR Settings resolution:
3572×3816 (100%) — (Also tried other %, 50% and 200%, with 0 changes to VorpX behavior)
Advanced Supersample Filtering (OFF) (Also tried ON, nothing will change)Not running anything, compositor resolution: 5356×5724 (looks nice and clean)
Running games:
-Baldurs gate 3:1080p = 1809×2000
Aliasing is horrible. If I play the game flat in BigScreen (which keeps the 5356×5724 resolution for the HMD) the game becomes WAY more playable, its just like playing on a low resolution 1080p display, especially most aliasing on text disappears. (No awesome VorpX 3D effects there, of course :( )1440p = 2344×2592
Improvement, but far from ideal2160p = 2781×3072
This seems to be the limit I keep hitting.Every resolution over 2160p (4860p included) = 2781×3072
Worst part about this is, like I said, the game is ACTUALLY rendering at those resolutions, I can easily tell by eye by getting closer to the floating screen and new detail will show up, but also, because the framerates match the performance expected and, in BG3’s case, putting the mouse over the window on the taskbar, will clearly state the resolution to the right of the title of the game.
This applies to all games I tested. Just for the sake of testing, I tried resolutions in windowed, fullscreen with no luck whatsoever.
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TLDR: no matter what resolution the game runs at, the HMD always runs against the 2160p wall. I wish VorpX could just… render at SteamVR’s resolution always or, just not mess around with the HMD’s resolution at all, I’d gladly pay the performance cost. Would that be a possibility?
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Extra data that might be useful:
-For a render resolution 1:1 sample per panel pixel, resolution should be around 5081×5612 (209%), so definitely we aren’t failing on that side of things, in fact, when I open SteamVR’s menu it is perfectly sharp, since it IS running at the 5356×5724 even when VorpX is running at lower resolutions underneath it (usually 2781×3072)-Also, SteamVR wants to default the HMD to 150% (4372×4672).
Hello Ralf, thank you so much for taking the time to reply from your busy schedule! I really appreciate it.
So, it seems there might be an issue detecting what is the the max height of the image VorpX sends to the headset, since its DEFINITELY short from double the game resolution.
It falls so short, that I see clearly LOTS of aliasing everywhere (even the window border). I will go so far to say, that the image quality is not THAT FAR off my VivePro’s when supersampling… while having literally 6 times more pixels, and rendering about 4 times more pixels.
When I lean into the floating window, I can see all the extra detail I was missing that the game was actually rendering, which suggests the image the game is rendering is way higher resolution than the image the HMD is receiving.(Again, for clarity’s sake, the sweetspot of my HMD should be able to catch around 5500p worth of resolution (45PPD).
Rendering at 4860p, although a high resolution, when on a big screen spanning most of my view, it should still NOT be supersampling, since it fails to get to 1:1)
(As a note, the resolution of the HMD is 3552×3880 per eye)Could it be that Custom Resolutions on vorpX virtual monitor, are not working as they are intended and sending a lower resolution due to the huge numbers?
I’ve gone as far as to literally unplug both my monitors and exclusively use VorpX’s virtual monitor set at the game’s resolution, 4860p, to no avail. (I’ve tried multiple games that use different engines, all have the same exact issue).
For extra info, I’m also using a SteamVR native HMD, so I’m guessing there should be no compositor shenanigans going on… (and just in case tried with the inhouse compositor the HMD also has, which changes nothing).
I’m not even trying to mess with 3D or VR modes yet to remove variables (although I’ve tried with the same issues, in fact, aliasing usually becomes even more glaring and worse when activating them).
I have also tried launching from VorpX Desktop (which also isn’t really usable due to low resolution of the HMD (not the desktop)) with no luck whatsoever.
I did also test older VorpX versions, just in case. No luck either.
I hope this info-dump helps you in some way to figure out the issue. If you need anything else, I will gladly try to help to get this resolved! I really hope the issue isn’t on my side, but with so many HMDs and so many variables… you never know.
I tried with 2 different (similarly spec PCs), since I did upgrade the whole system, but both had this same issue.TLDR:
I tried all that and sadly it doesn’t work :(Maybe there is an issue with detecting what is the the max height of the image VorpX sends to the headset when resolutions per eye are so ridiculously high?
@mr_spongeworthy I see! It isn’t just with my HMD then, it is happening on high res Pimax devices too!
@R.R.K Ignore that or disable your antivirus. Its obviously a false-positive result (unless you got the launcher from some sketchy place instead of from Ralf)
@Ralf I’m not using a Pimax HMD, but the MeganeX8K instead… and whatever is being sent to the HMD is not even close to be enough, when I need resolutions around 5500p just to cover 100% render resolution on the HMD to make up for distortions.
This issue alone is easily halfing resolution on my HMD and honestly… pushing me to stop using VorpX, or recommending it to anyone with a new highres HMD.
Any hope on getting a way to edit what is sent to our high resolution devices or some similar solution?
You are missing the point entirely though.
Of course UEVR doesn’t turn games into “VR Genre” games without a profile, neither does VorpX. And both will need a profile to do so as well. These games are not built to do that eitherway, so they would suck as such. Besides, if I’m being honest, I don’t even like the “VR Genre” of games, I just want to play my goddamn games immersed in VR.
Which I also think gets the strenghts of both… playing games immersively in 3D.
I think you are missing that Unreal Engine has a native VR pipeline that can be “hacked” through UEVR to make games that shouldn’t be able to use VR to do so. It can use perfectly fine raytracing, that isn’t an issue on the Engine side. A programmer such as yourself surely already knows that you should be able to mod that to match for VR in the places it doesn’t work in a per-game instance, since the VR pipeline is raytracing compatible with lumen and nanite, I tried it in engine and even if it brings a 4090 to its knees, it does work. If it does work, a mod can be made for it to work in UEVR as well then when the native pipeline doesn’t work.
I’m sure VorpX does something similar at an even lower level, thus why it works with more than just one specific engine. I vaguely remember Ralf saying something about it at some point? But I might be totally wrong.
I’m a gameplay programmer
Oh man, you should be able to do some very nice things in LUA using UEVR then, don’t you?