Search Results for 'sbs'

[Ralf]

Using vorpX directly is always better, not just because of the obvious image quality loss from the Full > SBS > Full scaling. You gain nothing, lose 80% of what vorpX can do, and add unnecessary performance issues on top of that.

The only reason the SBS output exists is because some users requested it for use with 3D TVs and projectors. DO NOT use it for some weird construction with an extra tool that captures the SBS image and displays it in the headset. That’s entirely pointless.

[senoctar]

I managed to grab some screens from Generic Display, Depth3D and the game’s built-in SBS as well. The first two are pretty much the same (Depth3D also renders a full frame since it’s just a Reshade filter). Both of them look better than the game’s built-in SBS which renders at half resolution (in line with what Ralf’s point).

The issue still stands that there is a loss from the full frame in all cases. So using vorpX to render directly to the HMD is better in terms of image quality than Generic Display SBS + Virtual Desktop.

[Ralf]

… has to upscale the sampled halves back to the original size.

Obviously. I just wanted to point out that vorpX never renders at half width. The actual game rendering is always done at full size.

When you output SBS with vorpX in ‘Generic 3D Display’ mode each eye is rendered at full width and then scaled down to half width, hence the resulting SBS image is 2×1 supersampled, i.e. better as if the actual rendering would have been done at half width.

[senoctar]

The issue isn’t with Generic Display itself. With Full-SBS you would get the “super” image without “sampling” so there is some loss in Half-SBS, however it’s barely noticeable on a 3D screen, at 1440p you might not even be able to tell.
However when that is rendered on an HMD there is one full screen for each eye (or equivalent on a very wide screen). The VR software has to upscale the sampled halves back to the original size. This is where some aliasing is likely being introduced.
I didn’t mention the images are of the left HMD screen taken though SteamVR. The full images are here: https://imgur.com/a/dVszJSV
Now that I think about it there might also be some issues with Depth3D’s sampling. I’ll test some more with vorpX Generic Display and with a game’s built-in SBS support.

[Ralf]

Just a heads-up that vorpX always renders at full resolution originally. For the SBS output in ‘Generic 3D Display’ mode where the images are scaled down to half width afterwards that means the final SBS image is 2×1 supersampled.

[mr_spongeworthy]

senoctar wrote:

Most passive 3D displays work better with Half-TAB due to how the polarizing filters are oriented.
Frankly I don’t know why we don’t have a common/standard format based on color space.
The idea is you will lose details unless all of your software and hardware in the chain supports Full-SBS/TAB.

Yeah, ‘back in the day’ I ran all industry-standard HDMI 1.4a stereoscopic rendering on a 720P DLP (projector) using frame-packing (hence my familiarity with TriDef for quite some time, as it supported this format). This meant I was getting a full 60hz 720 display at 30hz per eye. I put this together very carefully as driving stereoscopy was really fringe back then, and the power to do so meant that driving 720p was way easier than driving 1080p. The quality, even at 6 feet wide was BETTER than any HMD I’ve ever seen because you were getting (except for 2d elements) a different set of 1280×720 pixels in each eye. In many ways the entire VR craze has been a step backwards for me. It’s been great for a few things, like racing SIMS where it’s absolutely the bee’s knees, but in the end the VAST majority of what I like is really more about stereoscopy and CLARITY than ‘VR’. It’s why I had to wait for a relatively high-quality HMD before I could invest; I absolutely cannot tolerate the blurry mess of anything below the Pimax 5K+ resolution; and it’s only barely enough. Even with this I have to push the in-game rendering resolution as close to 4K per eye as possible to get the clarity I consider minimally acceptable (for VR mode. For virtual cinema mode 2560×1440 is good enough.) I can’t wait to get something better. Someday.

Anyway, the difference between SBS vs Top and Bottom is enough to make me use SuperDepth3D instead of vorpX in every possible case where it works on my current 3D display (unless vorpX were to happen to have a working G3D profile for a game I suppose, but so far only Fallout 3 has worked well for me in G3D mode and I play that on my HMD.) In general, you don’t really get a quality degradation over ‘flat’ 1080p anywhere except in 2D elements, where it can be very apparent. But if you are rendering 2 different sets of pixels, each at 1/2 1080p resolution, and presenting those different pixels to each eye, then your brain basically reconstructs them as just as high-quality as 1080p.

I would hope that adding support for a number of other 3D formats wouldn’t be that big a deal? In the end it would be great to use vorpX alone for many of these titles.

BTW, while I’m being a nagging pest and asking for features; being able to use ReShade with vorpX would be *huge*. ReShade can downright *fix* many problems with modern games. Fallout 4, for example, has two AA modes; ‘jaggy’ or ‘vaseline all over the lens.’ Can be completely fixed in 5 minutes with ReShade and can’t really be fixed without it. Not being able to use ReShade in combo with vorpX is a pretty big bummer, at least in some titles. It’s great to have the basic vorpX adjustments of course, and they are very much appreciated; sharpness, saturation, etc., but in the end they are limited compared to ReShade.

[senoctar]

There are two issues with going through Generic Mode.

One is as mentioned the format to provide stereoscopy. This tends to be a mess and almost all formats have compromises and limitations. Half-SBS will reduce the horizontal resolution. Depending on the source this can be more or less of a problem. Most passive 3D displays work better with Half-TAB due to how the polarizing filters are oriented.
Frankly I don’t know why we don’t have a common/standard format based on color space.
The idea is you will lose details unless all of your software and hardware in the chain supports Full-SBS/TAB.

The other has to do with FPS limiting and synchronization. This only applies to an HMD where there is a separate render task for VR which takes quite a bit of resources. vorpX will adjust the game FPS based on performance and synchronize frames to allow stutter-free VR rendering. When using vorpX Generic Display + Virtual Desktop this does not happen. It will work fine for something like INSIDE, but anything heavier on the GPU will result in a stuttery mess.

[mr_spongeworthy]

BTW, if I haven’t mentioned it, thanks for making traditional 3D modes easy to access. It’s really nice to be able to just throw on my 3D glasses and play many games on my 3D display instead of my HMD. And TBH in many cases I just feel a lot of the games I play are better suited that way anyway (i.e. my racing Sims and first person games are fantastic on the HMD, but I would much, much rather play titles like Dragon Age on my 3D display.) This is a feature I already use and will certainly use a lot more.

But since I’m here nagging about feature requests, I’ll stick this one here: any chance you might support other modes in the future? SBS is fine, but it’s only one of quite a few modes, and for some reason or another certain displays are known to look better in different modes even when they support an array of them. In my case my display is definitely a bit better in Above/Below aka Top/Bottom mode than it is in SBS mode.

[dellrifter22]

4:3 @ 2304×1728 is a good balance of G3D clarity and performance in most games with my HPG1. You can also lower your image zoom down a bit to increase the pixel density. I can go a little below .90 before the screen edge becomes noticeable.

Just curious… besides the obvious performance advantage, is there a reason it must be alternate frame rendering? Is normal G3D SBS not possible in a similar fashion?

@ Jarilo I did notice that the vorpX overide keys are now working again, so I had to go to the input page of delete menu and set Alt key override to NO, and now I can use they Alt key as normal.

[markbradley1982]

markbradley1982 wrote:

dh you can only play in 2D in VR … but if you switch to the side by side format in 3D you get real 3D !!! … wow … I was real flashed that it is so easy without a detour via “VorpX” …

Ugh so if I want to play this in native VR, as soon as I go on foot it switches to 2D instead of SBS? I would prefer a solution that lets me play in native VR where available, and then changes over to SBS 3D when on foot. Extremely lame the devs couldn’t do this when they were so close

[senoctar]

I also made a tutorial once but it was removed. I was suggesting modifying vorpX’s database which can easily break stuff beyond repair for those blindly following the steps without understanding what they do. Those who would understand don’t need a tutorial.

So I agree not everyone should go about tinkering with stuff when there’s no official support. But I don’t agree with the reasoning for the lack of it. Sure some might end up using a custom profile that is not up to date, but a pop-up warning when starting the game should suffice. By now I think it took more time explaining why re-assigning executables is blocked than it would have to set expectations that your are on your own with custom profiles.

User defined shader settings are a good thing when they will be available, but it doesn’t solve all of the issues. Sometimes I want to use Z3D or SBS but most official profiles only support G3D. For others I would like to use DX12 instead of DX11 or vice-versa. In some rare cases vorpX can corrupt the game’s settings after updates.

In the end though I can fix all of these for myself, and I don’t find that difficult to do. So I can’t complain. Managing the community and user’s expectation is mostly on Ralf’s shoulders and he choose to do that as he sees fit.

[TheBalt]

lokiss88 wrote:

Worth saying that Big screen VR allows you to flick to 3d sbs. I’ve used it in the past to play Tomb raider.

Another app worth looking in to for sbs gaming would be Helix, available on steam.

Just to add – unlike most stuff, im not sure about Big Screen VR; but Vorpx Desktop viewer w/ Reshade still includes Headtracking, in the event you wanted headtracking still in a game that was SBS 3d

Got Doom Eternal in 3d w/ Headtracking this way

[lokiss88]

Worth saying that Big screen VR allows you to flick to 3d sbs. I’ve used it in the past to play Tomb raider.

Another app worth looking in to for sbs gaming would be Helix, available on steam.

[Megablaster]

If you run media player classic player & load up your SBS movie file it will run in full *3D. You just need to set Vorpx to SBS mode & your *done!

[TheBalt]

As far as Ive ever used it – I could be wrong, but Vorpx doesnt ‘create’ a SBS image for you to use in Desktop mode. That being said, if the content is SBS (movie or a game with Reshade or Geforce 3d) you can select a setting in the Vorpx Menu while in Desktop Mode under “Image Settings”, go to “Stereo Type” and change to Side by Side.

Again, the -content- has to already be in SBS mode on your monitor for it to create the 3d effect. Thats as far as I know, though. This could not be 100% accurate, but thats what I know about it. Sure someone else can expand on it further, but if youve already got content that is SBS that you want to use, that should make it 3d in the headset.