Homepage › Forums › General vorpX Discussion › Possible to increase 3D strength beyond 5.0?
- This topic has 76 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated Jul 9, 2020 12:36am by RAGEdemon.
Dec 4, 2018 at 9:44pm #177319
I think noone else knows more about 3D then Ralf, otherwise VorpX wouldnt work as good as it does, just think of DirectVR. You will never be able to program something like it if you do not know “3D” perfectly.
BTW: I have an idea for a “fake doll house”. Since every user can access the shader options of a game, you could try to set the HUD elements completely to “HUD”. Then pulling them very close in the HUD settings. This makes the 3D scene appearing more in the background. Gaining 3D strength to the max should make the scene look like a “doll house” (depending on how the HUD looks like). Best for games where the screen has a complete HUD frame around. In cinema modes you could try focal offset if HUD elements are not accessable. That will push the scene (depending on the game) behind the HUD. Put focal offset to a negative value for that.Dec 4, 2018 at 10:08pm #177324dimensionaldudeParticipant
BTW: I have an idea for a “fake doll house”. Since every user can access the shader options of a game, you could try to set the HUD elements completely to “HUD”. Then pulling them very close in the HUD settings. This makes the 3D scene appearing more in the background. Gaining 3D strength to the max should make the scene look like a “doll house” (depending on how the HUD looks like). Best for games where the screen has a complete HUD frame around. In cinema modes you could try focal offset if HUD elements are not accessable. That will push the scene (depending on the game) behind the HUD. Put focal offset to a negative value for that.
If I’m not misunderstanding, that sounds like it could be quite close to what I might be looking for. I’m uncertain what you mean by “set the HUD elements completely to HUD, then pulling them very close in the HUD settings” could you elaborate how you would do that? If it’s already explained elsewhere, a link would be fine.Dec 5, 2018 at 12:38am #177333
There is no link yet i assume. Open VorpX ingame shader menu with STRG+END, step through the shaders and select HIDE or Red or Green (top-right under Vertex or pixel). When you come across a HUD element, that will disappear (hide) or turn to green for example. Make this element “Active” and set it to “HUD” state. Do that with any other HUD element that you find. Close that page and open the normal VorpX menu, find “HUD” settings and lower the bottommost slider value.
If you work in Cinema Mode you alternatively can try “Focal Offset” on the 3D page of the ingame menu.Dec 7, 2018 at 6:39pm #177417dimensionaldudeParticipant
I just wanted to followup and say that after doing some more testing I have one of two conclusions:
1. Everything is fine and I just had the wrong perception of where the camera should be for what I was looking at. If I’m expecting an object to be right in my face, but it’s really a couple a feet away, skewing my idea of perception. FOV was really the answer to everything where I thought there were depth issues, not extra high convergence.
2. I could just be a moron.
My apologies again for all the trouble. It looks like you were right on everything. I think my main issue was I had the wrong perception about where my brain was expecting the camera to be.
Your game examples were very helpful. I couldn’t handle a screen strength of even 2.0 on Mass Effect 3 and Metro 2033 was utterly perfect out of the box at strength 1.0. Ironically, Mass Effect 3 has a “dollhouse” effect at ANY strength, but I think that has more to do with the game itself than VorpX.
TLDR: Ralf is right on everything, sorry for me being an idiot.Dec 7, 2018 at 7:52pm #177422nieda113Participant
I comming back to share some findings about that dollhouse look,(which i prefer for FO4, SSE W3) As for Fallout4 there is a mod called ac camera. This lets u move the camera position away from the character. In tpv and fpv. If u increase the fov lets say to 110 -130 and use the camera mod you may experience a totally new game. If u have the chance to try helix 3d mods (nvidia 3dplay) u will get the perfect dollhouse effect game . The settings above is almost the same in a hmd.Jul 4, 2020 at 10:33pm #195786
I can’t get the dollhouse effect either in Vorpx. 3rd person games look better to me that way. Tried Lost Planet back to back in Vorpx and Tridef. Tridef looks better. Vorpx makes the game look flat and Harder to judge distances.Jul 4, 2020 at 10:51pm #195787
Have you used the Lost Planet Profile from the cloud ?Jul 5, 2020 at 12:57am #195788
In official profiles typically base parameters for G3D are dialed in to provide natural scale at about 1.0, which is what VR is about. So if you crank up the 3D-Strength to 5.0, which usually is not recommeded, a character that is 2m big becomes about 40cm small. I’d say 40cm instead of 2m should be dollhouse enough even for those who like that effect.
Ideally a ‘3D-Strength’ setting shouldn’t even exist in VR, no native VR app has such a thing. I’d happily get rid of it if the world scale of all games was 100% safe to determine under all circumstances.
On a sidenote: I bought a pair of early 3D glasses in the late 90s and used them maybe five times because I really disliked how on a monitor stereo-3D makes everything look even smaller than it is anyway. Never looked back. VR is a godsend in comparison, finally no more 3D for the sake of 3D, which for the most part just looks funny. Tough to feel like a video game badass when your on-screen self looks like a garden gnome… VR with with realistic stereo settings is much more immersive than that. Not more is better here, real is better. :)Jul 5, 2020 at 4:38am #195789
Have you used the Lost Planet Profile from the cloud ?
Yeah I’m using the one from the cloud but it seems to be set up for full VR mode. But I play the game in 3Rd personJul 5, 2020 at 6:23am #195790
full VR mode doesn’t work well out of the box for Lost Planet because there’s no FOV option. So the whole screen is stretched and warping. Doesn’t give a good first impression.Jul 5, 2020 at 7:39am #195791
Better immersion with realistic scale applies to immersive/cinema modes as well as full VR.Jul 5, 2020 at 8:19am #195792
But with 3rd person games. Take something like Trine 2 which looks incredible btw. You never get realistic scale because the character is is small. So it looks better with a strong 3d effect.
Lost Planet in Tridef looks similar to Trine 2’s effect
Which may not be realistic scale but it looks pretty good!Jul 5, 2020 at 10:42am #195793
To accomodate preferences like yours the max value has already been raised beyond what it was originally and what is necessary for its intended purpose. There will be no further changes in that regard, the current max is already way beyond the point where nearby objects can be succesfully fused into one by your eyes/brain. More just doesn’t make sense, actually not even the current max really makes sense typically. If you like things even more tiny than they already are at max strength, a tiny display (read: monitor) is the right choice, not a VR headset that fills your entire view.
Apart from that: there isn’t a single native VR application, first or third person, that has a ‘3D-Strength’ option at all. TBH I’d happily get rid of it entirely too if there weren’t a few unfortunate reasons to keep it.
Edit: I’ll probably add an option to scale down the virtual screen with the next update. Considering the low resulting resolution personally I really have no clue why one would want to do that instead of just using a monitor, but that should finally help those who want to recreate their monitor S3D experience in VR.
If afterwards anyone still complains about not being able to come close enough to their monitor S3D, I’ll jump out the next best window… :)Jul 5, 2020 at 12:49pm #195796
They don’t make s3d monitors anymore so people are using this as a replacement. Also the screen size of the virtual is much bigger than any 3d monitor you will ever find.
I run “toyification” on the same theater sized screen in VR.
Maybe we’re confusing terms because smaller screen size is definitely not what I’m looking for.
Actually I’m not even sure if it’s 3d strength that creates the effect. (Notice how I never asked for more 3d strength ;).
I was talking to the Helixvision developer and he said that it’s the convergence and separation that gives it that look.Jul 5, 2020 at 12:54pm #195797
‘3D-Strength’ is separation, ‘Focal Offset’ is convergence. vorpX just uses better understandable words for these instead of terms that have no meaning for most people. More doesn’t make sense for the reasons outlined in detail in my last reply. I won’t repeat that.
Sometimes I really think my mistake is even answering such questions. Instead of providing understandable explanations all I usually achieve by trying to explain things is sparking lengthy discussions. Obviously my fault.
Like I said already two times above: no native VR game, first or third person, has such an option in the first place. Do you have the same discussion with all of theirs developers too? Probably not. Personally I believe any “toyifcation” needs are already catered more than well enough by scaling everything down to 1/5th. However, to accomodate your preferences even better, you will be able to also scale down the screen with the next vorpX version, allowing things to be (hopefully) tiny enough for your taste eventually.
Again: If after adding the screen scale option anyone still complains about not being able to come close enough to their monitor S3D, I’ll jump out of the next best window… :)
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