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The explanation is unfortunately unsatisfactory.
Let’s take a real world analogy (i know you hate virtual monitors but the real world only has TVs and monitors so it’s easy to compare to):
– Most games in the world are played on TVs and Monitors. Every game ever created is displayed independently of how high the TV sits on a table, on the ground, mounted high on a wall etc – it doesn’t matter – the game display is always the same no matter how high you put the TV/monitor, and no-one has ever thought of this as wrong in any way – except you. It is important that the TV is in full view of the player – that is what is important – preferably at the centre of the eye line i.e. the players field of view.
The game eye-line changes instantly as soon as there is movement anyway.
I appreciate that VR is different and the mathematically correct way might be how you are describing centre. However, intuitively and logically, the centre of the viewport ought to be the centre of the HMD’s field of view for maximum viewing area and best use of resolution and pixel real estate.
Preventing losing viewing area at the top, or having a border at the bottom is much more noticeable than some ‘mathematically perfect’ view.
Anecdotally, from playing 2D games on VirtualDesktop and Big Screen Beta etc, moving the viewport screen up and down has no bearing on discomfort anyway.
Cheers.
[Partially shortened, you know why. Next time you get personal in any way results in a ban. Thanks for your understanding.]
It’s good that request for more detailed documentation is considered.
Cheers.
My reply was deleted by you and this one will likely be too, but I did read it as stated above – that’s how I was able to activate and disable shaders.
Nowhere in the documentation does it explain such things as the ‘Matrix’ option or any of the modifiers, as stated above (“which you probably didn’t read”), hence the reason for asking for detailed documentation.
Cheers.
No worries Ralf.
Recap:
Request: Hey Ralf, VorpX Viewports in fullVR/virtual aren’t centred to the HMD’s field of view which is strange – there’s a significant border at the bottom. Can you fix it or allow us to adjust the viewport down? Most/every other similar app allows this for obvious reasons.
Ralf: The viewport is not centred to the field of view on purpose. I personally don’t think it’s important to have the VorpX display centred to the HMD’s FOV so won’t do it.
Got it ;-)
“If only there were was some community anywhere 1/10 the size of the number of people wishing there was some community doing this or that. Writing a forum post about how it great it would be if there was some community doesn’t really help create one, only doing stuff does. :)”
I don’t understand – I asked if you could write documentation so we can make fixes and perhaps a community would arise helping each other out, as with numerous examples out in the world.
Your reply is sarcastically highlighting that people wish communities would do something instead of doing it oneself.
…what?
Making fun of people who want to make fixes, and the idea of a community arising around your own product, is disheartening. Sarcasm is also toxic and obnoxious, as well as being considered the lowest form of wit my friend. I’m sure this is not what you desire for your forums, but who am I to judge…
Anyway: Indeed, if there was detailed documentation on how to do it, people might try – I already have, as mentioned earlier. One cannot progress if one doesn’t know how ;-)
Cheers.
While that POV is appreciated, as others have pointed out, this feature could of course be added to “Expert Settings”, or simply ini/config file/registry tweaks so that the number of options and user experience remain constant to the general user.
Recently, the ambience feature has helped in this regard, however this issue has always been a glaring one to me, and I don’t believe I am the only person who has noticed this… Maybe it is worse on the CV1.
Anyway, I can’t twist anybody’s arm, nor do I want to. If you might want to add this feature to be default setting vs. some arbitrary horizon; that would be great as it would be a win-win for everyone – I don’t personally see any down sides – only positives.
If not, then that is a shame and a missed opportunity in my humble opinion.
Cheers.
…anyway:
Would it be possible to write more detailed documentation on how to make profiles/fixes with Vorpx’s various options? The various ways that VorpX handles shaders is intriguing and it would be great to have more details on what each method does and when it ought to be used, e.g. Matrix(?)
It would be cool if there was a community who learned from the documentation and helped each other. Less stress and work for you, and win-win for everybody.
Maybe RJK could start a school of some sort?
Cheers.
No-one is talking about Immersive Screen mode or monitors only Ralf – All screen modes, especially FullVR have this centring problem.
When you scale down the Full VR screen size so you can see the edges, e.g. so you can clearly see HUD elements traditionally at borders of screens in every game – the top (and sides) can fit well into the HMD FOV, however the bottom leaves a huge border.
One can expand the screen to cover this bottom border but then you lose a huge chunk of the top of the screen, even in FullVR. – The viewport ought to be centred to the HMD’s FOV by logic, not some arbitrary horizon which you feel ought to be the middle of the HMD.
Cheers.
Unfortunately Most VorpX games have broken Shadows, which “basic” stereo injectors manage to fix in DX9/10/11 just fine.
Maybe you might consider asking some 3DVision guys how they do it? I’m sure they will be happy to help from my humble experience. Win-win for everyone.
Hint: Broken shadows are distracting no matter what the level of 3D strength ;-)
Hint 2: As many people have replied to you – “realistic” is a relative term, and varies game to game, person to person, profile to custom profile – even with seemingly perfect math behind it.Looking forward to advancements in this area in the future…
Cheers.
My question was how to adjust the screen position like other virtual screen apps allow.
Your “concise” reply was to explain /why/ it wasn’t centred properly, not /how/ it can be achieved to user satisfaction – unhelpful.
This stance is unfortunate because most (every?) other virtual screen app allows this adjustment, and for good reason – only the centre of the FOV of the HMD counts, which is what the screen should be centred to.
Cheers.
Thanks for the encouragement – I tried it out. It is very similar to shaderhacking mods with 3D Vision by our 3D Vision community.
Is there any explanation about how to stereorise something which isn’t stereo? e.g. Shadows? Disabling them is all well and good but playing a game without shadows in 2020 is a bit basic. 3D Vision guys mostly get things working perfectly and I would like to be able to do that with VorpX if possible too without too much messing about :)
There are plenty of shader settings in VorpX such as Matrix etc. It would be good to have detailed documentation on what these settings mean and how to effectively wield them.
Hats off to Ralf for making this an in-game feature. Well done. Just needs a little polish now…
I didn’t know about that aspect of VR headset design; that’s cool to know.
If you don’t want to play with a huge border at the bottom then the alternative is to expand the screen to completely cover the FOV, e.g. most default FullVR game profiles.
Unfortunately, because of this misalignment, to cover the full FOV available in an HMD we have to make the screen very big to get rid of the black at the bottom. Unfortunately this also means that a huge part of the screen at the top is now not visible by the user – wasted pixels, resolution, performance headroom, and gaming FOV.
I appreciate that it might be centred mathematically, however it makes more sense to centre the viewport to the field of view of an HMD in my humble opinion. Is there a way I can centre it to [my] personal preference Ralf? Maybe registry/ini tweaks of some kind?
All other virtual screens offer this adjustment since the beginning, e.g Virtual Desktop, Big Screen Beta, HelixVision; as well as many other third party apps utilising virtual screens.
Cheers.
Update:
G3D: No Focal Offset settingZ-normal: Focal distance setting at 0 is max separation. Only + adjustments are allowed, which actually decrease separation – the opposite of what was asked for.
Z-Adaptive: Focal Offset setting is available in both positive and negative directions, and actually seems to work to a relatively minor degree. Unfortunately, it needs to be combined with an adjustable convergence setting. One exists but the adjustment it allows is only minor.
All this is tested with a single officially unsupported game so it is possible that the used profile is to blame.
Looking forward to testing these settings with other games in the future…
As a monitor/projector Stereo 3D veteran, the reason this got heated is because both parties concerned are right – they are just talking about different aspects.
Ralf is talking about convergence (pop-out from virtual screen). The other guy(s) are talking about separation (depth) – I too had requested this a long while back. It seems unfortunate that they are misunderstanding each other.
I am going to try out the “Focal Offset” setting which only today learned was available. For the record, I actually like a little divergence in my eyesight while gaming in S3D – after decades getting used to S3D glasses, it gives me more 3D than real life without headaches or eye strain. Definitely not for beginners…
Ta for the info Ralf.
1. Is disabling Asynchronous Warp using the Oculus Tray Tool not supposed to disable this behaviour? (it doesn’t seem to have any effect)
2. Anyway, to confirm: non-Oculus headsets using SteamVR don’t have this issue?
b. What if we try to use the CV1 via SteamVR – would this help? i.e. In SteamVr games, when I disable SteamVR “Allow Asynchronous Reprojection” setting, I get great performance utilising all GPU power without any cut-downs to 45fps. Can I somehow get the same effect with VorpX?
I have been considering getting the Pimax 8KX + Index controllers bundle when it finally gets released. It would be great to get a thumbs up from you if you’re saying it will have significantly less of this issue…
Cheers.