- This topic has 14 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated Jun 21, 2020 2:53pm by
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The main problem I’m having with Vorpx is that I can’t find a way to make the screen smaller.
I can only make it farther, what at first gives the impression that the screen is getting smaller. But by doing so, the game objects also get farther, what diminishes the feeling of 3D, since for a strong 3D effect we need objects that are near and others that are far. If everything is far, it doesn’t really feel 3D. But if I put the screen near me, it’s so big that I feel like sitting in the front row of a cinema, it’s so big that I can’t see anything comfortably, and because of the limited resolution (I run games between 720p and 900p to keep the framerate good) it also gets ugly.
So the best option for me is a screen that feels like a real PC monitor: around 80 cm from my eyes, but a size that lets me look at it all comfortably. So it would let me see near objects actually near me, and the game resolution wouldn’t become so ugly.
I also couldn’t find a way to lower the screen. The default height is already too high, to be comfortable our eyes should be between the middle and top part of a screen. The default height makes us between the middle and the bottom, so I feel like I’m always having to look a little up. And I couldn’t find a way to bring the screen down.
A perfect example of what I mean is HelixVision. You can change freely the size and the position of the screen. I don’t think there’s any reason why Vorpx can’t allow us to do the same.
To match the game’s camera center vorpX’s camera is precisely centered at the screen per default, it is not between the middle and the bottom. You might get fooled into believing that by the asymmetrical view frustum all headsets use to some degree, which makes the space below the screen a bit larger than above when the view is perfectly centered to the screen.
If for some reason you prefer something else than looking at the center, you can easily lower/raise your head a little and press ALT+SPACE to re-center head tracking. After doing so the center height will be where you prefer it to be.
I see. What about the screen size? Is there really no way to change it, or I just didn’t find the option?
You can do almost anything with the screen that you could ever dream of, including moving it further away if you dislike its visual size. The effect on the perceived strength of the 3D effect, which I understand is your concern here, wouldn’t be any different when you change the size instead.
If you wonder why things are like they are, in this case the main reason is that there always has to be some balance between customizabilty and a still halfway sensible amount of buttons/sliders in an UI. Not everyone prefers a gazillion of options to tinker with, so if in doubt largely superfluous options typically are left out.
Oh, that’s sad news. I hope I don’t sound arrogant, but through my tests and readings about depth and convergence since the release of 3D Vision, and also from when I dabbled in 3D photography, screen distance (and consequently distance to the near plane when you can’t control the convergence), is actually important. You can test yourself with HelixVision: between a big screen far from you, and a small screen near you, the 3D effect is stronger in the latter.
Anyway, I do hope that the developers of Vorpx find some time to implement this feature. It’s something that doesn’t seem that difficult, and would make a big and nice addition. Even if you don’t agree that this would make much difference, there’s never a downside to having more options, right?
For me this would prove a more important option than many of the ones that are available now.
Like said above it’s not about finding time for implementing a feature, which would be fairly simple in this case, it’s about the right balance between customizability and a sensible amount of options. Not everyone likes a gazillion of cogs and levers to tinker with.
You probably fall into the latter category, and I believe there are more than enough options for you to play with, but not everyone is like you. So largely superfluous options might not always be available although someone like you might prefer that.
Consider the almost impossible task in this regard trying to find the right balance between Apple and Linux. :)
Oh, I just saw that you are actually Vorpx’s developer. Now I feel honestly deeply bummed, since it means changing screen size won’t be implemented…
I love 3D gaming. I was an early adopter of 3D Vision, 3DS and VR, so I take it seriously. I experimented with sizes, distances, depth and convergence, so although I agree that the options in Vorpx make 3D gaming “work”, it could still be better. When it’s about 3D, bigger doesn’t always mean better. That’s why 3D cinema feels unnecessary for so many – a bigger and far screen (with the main objects as far as the screen itself) is less impressive than a smaller and near screen. And with the current options in Vorpx, it simulates just that – a 3D cinema.
I really hate tinkering with options and settings. That’s one of the main reasons why I bought but abandoned Vorpx in 2016 – cloud profiles didn’t work very well for me and still too much tinkering was necessary. Some days ago HelixVision got me excited about playing 3D games on VR again, and I decided to try a few games on Vorpx to see how much it improved and they do work pretty well, so I got excited for Vorpx again. But as I said before, having to choose between a near screen with blown up resolution and size, or a far screen with far objects (what makes it almost the same as playing in 2D), is far (pun intended) from ideal.
I think what’s bothering the most is that Vorpx is just one option away from being great, and its creator keeps refusing to add it. I did have a very stubborn father, so seeing signs of stubbornness from other people does get me worked up more than it should.
Well, it does sadden me that you keep refering to this important and handy option as “superfluous”, but there’s nothing I can do about it. I just hope some day you suddenly get a “oh why not?” inspiration and implements it. Meanwhile, I’ll go back to Monster Hunter World in 2D and using HelixVision for Witcher 3.
Listen, I understand that it might be frustrating when “your” option is not available. As far as stubborness is concerned, I could easily say the same about you if I wanted. Your option isnt’t there, so now you are sulky. Sounds pretty stubborn to me. :) That doesn’t lead anywhere though, so let’s just stop it, OK? If you have a suggestion to make, I listen and try to explain. Next time you get personal however, you’re out. On a more general note in that regard: others aren’t stubborn just because you don’t always get from them what you want.
That said, not listening to user feedback would be pretty foolish, just not every single wish can make it, sorry. vorpX is about VR, VR is about being in the game, hence recreating a small screen in front of you has a different priority than it (understandably) might have for you as a stereo 3D enthusiast. However, should your feature become requested more often in the future, there always is a chance that it will get implemented at some point.
@leandroeidi
I do not want to discuss this, maybe just give a hint.I have created many hundret of profiles and i must honestly say i have never been in the situation where i want the screen to be “far away”. The rule for VorpX is “always close as possible”. If you are not satisfied with the depth you could easily experiment with “3D strength” and/or “focal offest” in the VorpX ingame menu. Depending on the game you could even create a dollhouse like look this way. So what Ralf said is absolutely true, you already have many options. I wouldnt miss anything as a profile creator at the current state of development.
I’m sorry that my “stubborn” comment felt like a personal attack. As I said, I got worked up and I apologise for that.
@RJK_
That’s exactly my point. I don’t want a screen that’s far, because it makes most objects also too far and it diminishes the 3D effect. I want a very near screen (around 80cm from my face). But since there’s no way of making the screen smaller, making it so near my eyes, it also makes it huge and unusable.@Ralf
Anyway, just to show that more people want screen resizing options, I made a quick search in the forums. I hope this all inspires you to do it.
This first one is interesting because he doesn’t know what’s causing the “flat” 3D effect, but it’s the combination of screen size and distance that I explained before. The screen size for him feels fine, but 3D depth isn’t, and it’s exactly because the screen is too far. By allowing a near and smaller screen, the screen area in his vision would stay the same, the 3D effect would be stronger, and he would also get what he wants.The posts below are more direct in asking for a screen size option, either to make it bigger or smaller:
https://www.vorpx.com/forums/topic/is-it-possible-to-make-the-cinema-mode-screen-as-big-as-an-actual-cinema-screen/#post-172217 (quote #172217)Hey ralf, can you add the option of resizing the cinema screen to WHATEVER size?
Is it possible to make the cinema mode screen as big as an ACTUAL cinema screen?
Suggestion: Screen Position / HUD Position Vertical adjustment if possible
Feature request:screen distance offset increase in virtual cinema mode vlc
Thanks for the work you put into providing those links, which gives me the opportunity to explain one more time why no additional screen options will be implemented at this point. The key here, again, is finding the right balance between keeping the amount of options sensible and fulfilling everyone’s wishes, which unfortunately isn’t always the same.
Since the original cinema mode was introduced the feedback you linked above has actually helped to make the screen feature what it is now. A whole new ‘Play Style’ option in the form of ‘Immersive Screen Mode’ has been implemented based on the feedback you linked above.
At this point however, after years of user feedback and refining, there is everything available option wise in that regard that is important when focusing on a VR experience. I always listen to suggestions, otherwise a lot of what you see currently in the menu in regard to screen customization wouldn’t exist. Pretty much only simulating a TV like small screen, like you prefer, isn’t really a priority. If anything, some people wanted the screen to be even larger as you can see for yourself in the posts you linked, which has been addressed by ‘Immersive Screen Mode’.
vorpX’s main focus is and remains VR. I always keep one eye on the dwindling stereo enthusiast community as well, e.g. not too long ago vorpX got SBS output due to (semi) popular demand, but occasionally keeping things focused on VR might collide with one or the other wish of a hardcore stereo 3D enthusiast. Sorry again for that.
Here’s another strong request for a screen size setting.
The lack of it has been the main recurring control issue I’ve had with VorpX.The past few days I’ve been playing SW Jedi: Fallen Order in Z3D mode and none of the options available let me have the experience I want. The thing with Z3D is that the game world’s infinity plane is basically fixed at screen depth or barely behind. So the only way to have the game’s (stunning) landscapes close enough to infinity is to put the screen far away. But far away, the screen is too small… The other compromise is a big screen but too close so the game world looks tiny and fake. Both options are equally killing the immersion factor. It bothered me enough that this time I shut down the game and came here to post my request. Then I found this thread.
In any case, having the possibility of changing the screen size sounds like something very basic to me. And far from superfluous. To me.
While I agree with the need to not flood everyone with a million options at first sight, I think you (Ralf) actually already found the solution that satisfies everyone: the extra settings are already hidden in the “More screen settings” section. So people who dislike having many options won’t be hurt at all if you add one more setting to this advanced section. It’s there for that. As for those who need the option, they know what they are getting into when clicking on “more settings”.
I think that, in a general way, nobody has ever hated devs for adding more options, as long as they are properly organized and advanced stuff is hidden away from casual users.
A valid reason to not add options is dev time and code maintenance burden, but this option we’re requesting would be really simple code wise, as you acknowledged.About the focus being on VR, alright but 3rd person games won’t fade away anytime soon and AFAIK, full VR mode doesn’t work with them. So to get good immersion with these games (and it’s possible), good screen management is crucial.
PS: Something superfluous is the term “offset” in “Screen distance offset”. It makes the setting sound very technical. I’d name it simply “screen distance”.
The main problem of the CINEMA and immersion modes is the lack of focus in infinity. In these two modes, the effect of a huge TV is two or one and a half meters from the viewer. This makes the 3D effect puppet and flat. There is a setting FOCAL. If you move the slider to – 20, the scale becomes realistic. But, in many games this breaks some shaders, such as shadows and lighting. And in the Z3D NORMAL mode – the FOCAL setting cannot be moved to – 1 and beyond. That is, the effect of the puppet theater is impossible to fix.
All these problems are not in Direct VR mode. But it is difficult to use it as a virtual screen, due to the fact that head tracking is always attached to the camera. I have to always turn off tracking completely. This isn’t very convenient, since I can’t inspect the screen with a head-twist as it is available in the CINEMA and Immersion modes.
Here we have a dilemma
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