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  • RJK_
    Participant

    I always wondered (exspecially now after the new vorpx sharpening has been introduced) how small a pixel can be before it doesnt make sense to raise a headsets hardware resolution any futher. I came to this because i wondered how it would look like when shrinking down a 19″ monitor to 2″. I mean for example 1080p on 19″ looks quite sharp, shrinking that down to 2″ must even look more sharper and it seems it does (or does it not beacuse of FOV ? I only slowly get an idea by pushing that cinema screen back to a 19″ size). So 2880p shrunk down to 1 oder 2″ must even look more sharp and so on. Now since a Vive Pro for example has a hardware resolution of 1440×1600 per eye,rasing resolution way above that makes the image sharper and sharper as more i raise my resolution setting. 2880p for example. Now there are headsets with 2440×2440 for example. I wonder if it would make sense to buy such a Headset while i still can keep gaining resolution to the limit of my PC with one with less hardware resolution.

    What i basically want to find out whats the limit of the human eye. 4k, 8, 50 k and why can image quality visually be raised by going over the hardware resolution of a headset which i find is weird ? Any thoughts in theory on this matter ?

    Rikster618
    Participant

    Hello Ralf,

    I am at my wit’s end. I have tried everything but still can not get SoundSpectrum’s Aeon 3D Music Visualizer to successfully hook to my VorpX v21.3.01.0 with my Quest 2 via Airlink and give me ANY true 3D Stereo Geometry Effects in VR. The screen always looks flat whether in True 3D Mode, Immersive mode, or Cinema Mode. It also does not matter What 3D Reconstruction Mode I choose (Geometry, Z-Adaptive, Z-Normal, or Off) They all look flat. Everything seems to work Aeon and VorpX except the 3D Stereo Effect.

    Aeon is a truly great VJ Music Visualizer Software and would be truly mind-blowing in 3d Stereo VR with VorpX if I could get it to work.

    It is disappointing in that Baktus and others from the VorpX Forum seem to imply that it works:

    From Baktus Dec 12, 2018 –

    Soundspectrum Aeon has 3 d grafic engine and works with ue3 profile. Max Fov and 3d deep and enjoy your music with Aeon vr!
    Good: awesome, blown away hear my music this waybad: need Platinium version for 30 bucks, and g3d grafics could be still a bit deeper

    I did all of that but still no luck for me, All flat. I hope they are not mistaken.

    Ralf, please if you could confirm that Aeon can indeed fully work with your wonderful VorpX and let me know what I am missing I would be forever in your debt. It has been a dream of mine to get Soundblaster’s Aeon fully working in VR. Maybe you can do your magic and we end up with a new Profile.

    Here is something from an About just in case it is helpful:

    SoundSpectrum maintains a Python-based 3D drawing API for both public and internal use. The purpose of this API is to offer rich content authoring capabilities by exposing SoundSpectrum’s high-performance C++ based graphics engine to an embedded python interpreter. SoundSpectrum develops and maintains each of these layers and currently targets OpenGL, OpenGLES1, OpenGLES2, and Direct3D on Windows, OS X, and iOS.

    If this helps there is a trial version available here that could maybe used for testing: https://www.soundspectrum.com/aeon/download.html

    Ralf, if it only works with the paid version, which Baktus seems to imply, I would gladly cover the $30 cost.

    Here is hoping you can help me fix this.

    Thanks in advance!

    Rik Henderson (Rikster618)
    Email: rikster618@gmail.com
    My Direct Phone 1-818-620-2879

    My SoundSpectrum Log.txt:
    ———————
    GetSystemInfo(), 15-OCT-2021, 13:02:49 (UTC-7):
    Aeon 4.1.1 (8309), STANDALONE
    OS:Win62x64 CP0:Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz Video0:NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Video1:NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Video2:NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Video3:NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti HT_Supported:0 NumVirtualCores:16 NumEffectiveCores:16
    CPU performance class: 3
    GPU performance class: 2
    hash=kO1RVILWWlE-6tKkCzaVI4OMTA586QA15Ke8NhnpRkpK-8zzRCYf2u-fZRZfot79Hn0jVduxjye5ENuXmCzdXh
    Direct3D
    DeviceType: 0x1
    Caps: 0x20000
    Caps2: 0xE0020000
    Caps3: 0x3A0
    CursorCaps: 0x1
    DevCaps: 0x1BBEF0
    DevCaps2: 0x51
    RasterCaps: 0x7732191
    ZCmpCaps: 0xFF
    AlphaCmpCaps: 0xFF
    ShadeCaps: 0x84208
    SrcBlendCaps: 0x3FFF
    DestBlendCaps: 0x3FFF
    LineCaps: 0x1F
    StencilCaps: 0x1FF
    TextureCaps: 0x1ECC5
    PresentationIntervals: 0x8000000F
    TextureFilterCaps: 0x3030700
    TextureOpCaps: 0x3FEFFFF
    VertexProcessingCaps: 0x17B
    PixelShaderVersion: 0xFFFF0300
    VertexShaderVersion: 0xFFFE0300
    PrimitiveMiscCaps: 0x2FCEF2
    PrimitiveMiscCaps: 0x2FCEF2
    MaxVolumeExtent: 2048
    MaxTexBlendStages: 8
    MaxSimultTextures: 8
    MaxStreams: 16
    MaxStreamStride: 255
    MaxPrimitiveCount: 16777215
    MaxVertexIndex: 16777215
    AvailableTextureMem: 3916M

    SSRendererFlags: 0x1F00B84
    Max tex size: 16384 x 16384 x 2048
    Max tex units: 8
    Audio:
    0: Class 5, ‘Sound Generator (Fluid)’
    1: Class 5, ‘Sound Generator (High Energy)’
    2: Class 5, ‘Sound Generator (Chill)’
    3: Class 0, ‘”What U Hear” (Sound Blaster Audigy 5/Rx)’
    4: Class 2, ‘Microphone (Sound Blaster Audigy 5/Rx)’
    5: Class 2, ‘Headset Microphone (Oculus Virtual Audio Device)’
    6: Class 2, ‘MIDI (Virtual Desktop Audio)’
    7: Class 1, ‘Line-In (Sound Blaster Audigy 5/Rx)’
    8: Class 1, ‘Stereo Out (SoundSpectrum Audio Cable)’
    9: Class 0, ‘Stereo Mix (Realtek High Definition Audio)’
    10: Class 2, ‘Microphone (HD Web Camera)’
    ———————

    #206604
    onetoo
    Participant

    I tried Bioshock Infinite. There is a noticeable improvement in sharpness, reflections, and detail with FSR set to medium @ 3200×2400. Setting FSR to High causes a game crash. I also set sharpening to 1.20 which is adequate, but going too high also causes a crash. If the menu and Hud clarity could be improved, the game would be perfect.

    #206574
    RJK_
    Participant

    Havent had one crash since i installed the multicore fix above. Now with Ralfs incredible new sharpening you can spot distant details you never belived they were there. ( both sliders all the way up to max ). Uhh year good Idea with the UGRIDS setting looks awsome. Here now 65/82 smoothly with 3840×2880 and maximum texture pack on my GTX1080ti.

    #206522
    dellrifter22
    Participant

    Glad i got a chance to check this out tonight, before I’m out of town for a week. Thanks.

    Initial impressions are that it looks pretty good (much clearer than previous vorpX defaults) although noticeably softer than I’m used to at max sharpen. 2.0 on this filter seems about as strong as 1.0 of the old. I think the new combination has a more natural “smooth” look, perhaps more stable and more accurate, but I may still prefer the old method with Sharpen 2.0 and Crystal image Normal.

    The old filter seems to have a higher contrast defining edges, adding more black to contour lines and textures, in turn making the overall scene look slightly more complex. It’s subtle effect, but adds just enough to better discern objects in the distance, like individual trees and their leaves, and makes terrain textures look slightly more detailed – even if artificially. Text lines are also better defined. I’m using Assassin’s Creed Origins/Odyssey as test cases for high res Z3D 3200×2880.

    At least these are my observations off the bat. I know it’s subjective, and most will prefer a more accurate image, free of artifacts, but just thought I’d mention this opinion in case there were some way to extend the range of the new sharpen, or include the old filters as alternatives.

    Anyhow, I look forward to playing more with this when I return. Thanks.

    #206480
    RJK_
    Participant

    Additional hints if you want to use this https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/12056 maximum texture pack and run in crashes.

    This https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/21888/ Multicore fix seems to make the game more stable. I tested this with resolutions at 3840×2880 and it seems to work.
    I recommend changing your ini files manually in order to keep your FOV settings, just add the additional lines mentioned in the 4gB fix. Good luck.

    #206443
    RJK_
    Participant

    Correction: not 3600×3700, i meant 3600×2700. Though in the meantime i still encountered crashes. It looks like going down to 3200xx makes the game more stable.

    mr_spongeworthy
    Participant

    Personally I think for CP2077 in FullVR mode 2400×1800 (DLSS at ‘Auto’, i.e. the game originally renders a res below that) is the sweet spot on a high end machine if you aren’t willing to dial down graphics detail and still want a crisp image. An RTX3080 is able to maintain almost stable 60fps that way incl. raytracing, so there even is a bit of headroom. With the clarity setting cranked up that looks quite good even on a headset with high pixel density (e.g. Reverb G2), on headsets with lower pixel density (e.g. Index/Rift S) it’s already borderline overkill.

    I could probably do that if I didn’t need to turn Parallel Projections on with my Pimax for use with vorpX. Parallel Projection causes a huge overhead. Unfortunately I’m also super-sensitive to blurriness; just massively prefer an extremely crisp gaming environment. Im running a 3080 Ti (factory overclocked, so it runs right over 2GHz out of the box), but because I can see a huge difference, even in Virtual Cinema mode, between 2880×1620 and 3840×2160 in every title I send to my HMD through vorpX, it leaves me really struggling when it comes to performance in some titles. It’s just my unfortunate preference for sharpness getting in the way (well, plus the need for PP). I tell you what, CP2077 at 4K with DLSS at Balanced 64hz/32fps looks, well, it looks incredible (I moved back to CP2007 v1.23). It’s essentially unplayable at that low frame rate, but WOW, just WOW.

    I’m very excited to try the FidelityFX enabled version when you release it. Even if it doesn’t help this particular usage scenario, I think it’s going to be great overall.

    #206222
    mr_spongeworthy
    Participant

    Yeah, typically I agree that upscaling stinks, but newer versions of DLSS are surprisingly good in a number of titles. What AMD is doing isn’t quite as good, but then again it supports a LOT more hardware and it’s Open Source (thus allowing you to use it; I’m really interested in seeing how that works out as I bet it gives me that final boost in clarity that I really need, but at a lower resolution. Currently I just *have* to push 4K per eye for full VR to look sharp, even with sharpening turned all the way to max).

    Yesterday I had things running incredibly well at 45/90 at some weird resolution between 2880×1620 and 3840×2160; 33xx by something else. But no luck today; gotta love that! No idea what changed; nothing deliberate, that’s for sure. I’m back to 36/72 at any resolution I want to use, which is way too low for full VR anyway, and the RT is, to me, what gives Cyberpunk it’s best look; without, even at higher resolutions, it looks an awful lot like any other moderately capable engine. On the other hand, if the devs keep borking the quality, which degrades with every single major patch, I’m just going to bail on this title anyway, like so many other have already done – it’s the visuals and atmosphere that set Cyberpunk apart, that the devs seem set on destroying that in pursuit of better performance on older consoles is just baffling.

    #206188
    mr_spongeworthy
    Participant

    The latest vorpX update, combined with a couple other tweaks, has me running Cyberpunk at 3840×2160, Ultra Ray-Tracing settings, at “Balanced DLSS” at 72hz/36fps. It’s not great for full VR mode (although; certainly fun to hop into that mode occasionally), but it does look extremely good in Virtual Cinema mode. Super-crisp with vorpX sharpening set all the way to max.

    A few things I’ve discovered along the way:

    1) I believe vorpX originally set my screen mode to borderless windowed. When I went back to full screen mode my performance immediately increased by a fairly substantial amount. I’m glad I finally tried switching back to full-screen mode.

    2) The Cyberpunk depth-map may be very strange. I’ve found that by placing the depth-balance all they way out and then turning down the overall depth scale I still get tons of ‘near’ depth, but now with excellent ‘far’ depth as well and much reduced distortion overall. This exact same trick works for SuperDepth3D BTW, where I’ve found settings that work well to be wildly different than I’ve seen for any other title.

    3) I think we are down to only 2 issues that need fixing; the way specific Mods are now available for RDR2 and GTAV made me think it’s possible for Cyberpunk as well: A) We need to figure out what the UI overlay is for the help-keys, and then substitute the Controller UI elements for the Keyboard UI elements. That way when Cyberpunk flips between the controller and keyboard UI elements it will be flipping between ‘controller’ and ‘controller’ elements. It’s definitely a bit problematic to run this without being able to easily read what button you are supposed to use. B) Vehicle FOV changes make it essentially impossible to drive or ride in full VR mode, which is a real shame, as that’s the perfect place for full VR mode to work in this title. There is a Cyberengine Tweaks way to play with this, but like many things, getting that complicated mess to work with an already complicated mess could take countless hours. It would be great if vorpX had a way to fix this issue.

    kurry
    Participant

    There’s a patched version of pcsx2 that has SBS. I tried it so long ago that I can’t remember if it provided good results: https://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Gsdx-3D-Stereoscopy-Patch?pid=522990#pid522990

    #205766
    mr_spongeworthy
    Participant

    I have updated to a 3080 Ti (thanks to Micro Center actually selling GPUs occasionally at MSRP on a walk-in only basis, 1 per household. No way was I going to give a scalper even a cent, so I waited.)

    I am 95% of the way to having Cyberpunk working at 4K, “Performance Mode” DLSS, Ultra Ray Tracing!, 72Hz 36fps. It all works and looks amazing. However, like many modern Z3D games, I may end up playing it in cinema mode due to the increased clarity; spreading even 3840×2160 pixels across my HMD in full VR mode just isn’t quite enough for excellent sharpness. It’s close, but not quite there.

    Anyway, I have issues with the GUI. I did a full reset of the profile before I tried getting it setup correctly, so I started with a clean vorpX slate, but even at that, in VR mode any Xbox controller shortcut shown on the screen flickers several times a second between the Xbox and Keyboard shortcut for that action. This makes it very hard to see what controller input is expected for an action. Also, dialog subtitles and a variety of other text does not match up with the field which is supposed to be behind it, making it hard to read. I’ve played with a number of settings but haven’t found a solution to either of these issues.

    #205611
    Lawrence1962
    Participant

    With my Index I often prefer a resolution of 2880×2160 instead of 3840×2160, because in 3840×2160 i get not enough fps in G3D. Resolutions like 2560×1440 and 2880×1620 are too blurry in my opinion. But the Pimax has a 16:9 Display, and i don’t know whether it makes sense to buy a Pimax ?

    #205570
    Forux
    Participant

    G3D = geometry 3D ? I used 3840×2400 for plane image, not 3D

    So my tests shows that there are no problem at 3072×1920 and problem starts from next 3456×2160

    Also with 3072×1920 image much sharper, blur effect has gone (myabe it can be even better but vorpx stop working with higher resolution)

    #205559
    Forux
    Participant

    I dont own a Pro2, but i read from the web that the additional software thats required to be installed can be disabled. (Install is a must, but it seems using it may be optional). So if you find a way to disable that HTC stuff and run the headset with SteamVR only, try that and see if it helps.

    Can you please share where do you found that info? Will check

    And also I found real problem – when I chage resolution higher then monitor supported with custom resolutions to 3840×2400 the same issue happened if 3d mode fully disabled, so it is because of the higher resolution in geometry mode.

    There are any known issues with higher resoltions then monitor supports? (game work on monitor but freezed in VR)

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