- This topic has 310 replies, 52 voices, and was last updated Dec 23, 2023 6:28pm by
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OK, I think I have the 3D Display loss of depth / sync figured out in the beta. It appears to be an additional symptom of Cyberpunk’s long-standing issue of losing performance over time (until you fix it with a restart, or if you are lucky by just loading a save). In the HMD this has just been a minor annoyance. Start out easily maintaining 45fps and 10 minutes later you’ll get 40fps in exactly that same scene (unrelated to GPU temp/throttling.) But when that gets bad enough it causes additional issues on my 3D display. Anyway, that what seems to be currently going on.
I have finally resolved the AFR issue I was having with Cyberpunk (at least, now I can play for over an hour without needing to restart the game or simple load a save.) The Steam client (not the Steam VR client) was crashing in the background ONLY while playing Cyberpunk. This was greatly exacerbating the long-standing ‘slow degradation of performance’ which has plagued Cyberpunk, causing it to kick-in the moment the Steam client crashed, instead of taking an hour+. This then caused significant spikes in CPU usage, which was causing the AFR sync to drop out momentarily. As Steam was only crashing during Cyberpunk, I had not put 2-and-2 together. Reinstalling Steam did not fix the problem. Neither did a clean install of Cyberpunk. Turning on the Steam beta fixed the issue immediately.
So, here are my actual findings with the Beta 23.1.0 now that I have that not-vorpX related issue fixed:
1) Performance in Cyberpunk is better with the 23.1.0 beta than it is with the stand-alone mod. It is very easy to hit 60fps at insane quality settings on my 3D display. It remains tantalizingly out of reach to hit 45/90 at sufficient quality in this particular title on my HMD however, so I’m stuck at 37.5/75 when playing in on my HMD. Ultimately I think DLSS3 Frame Generation is the going to be the killer feature to get such demanding titles to play well. Using Z3D to my HMD, not AFR. Note that normal things like turning off RT do not resolve this issue; it seems very-specifically related to the rendering resolution. Even when I turn quality lower Cyberpunk will cause the HMD-refresh to drop below 90, causing the in-game rendering to also drop and stutter to begin. I have to reduce quality by truly *massive* amounts to maintain 45/90 in that particular title.
2) AFR works on my 3D Display in Cyberpunk, but Z3D solutions are broken in all titles.
3) Performance in other titles seems very good. For example I am able to play Hogwarts at 4K, RT High, DLSS Off with nearly all quality settings maxed (lower quality on Fog and post-proccessing at this time) at 45/90.
4) The following vorpX sync setting work FAR far (far, you get the idea) better than any other combination on my Pimax 8k-x. You might consider making this setting combo the default for Pimax HMDs: Sync method: Slow, HMD Multithreading: ON (this provides not only the highest in-game rendering rates compared with the other methods, it also creates the lowest-judder experience.)(ARGH: Edit time has expired already! Please feel free to combine with my prior post!)
I forgot to ask one question: I’m playing Cyberpunk in cinema mode and made the mistake of allowing vorpX to install the little helper for Cyberpunk when the vorpX beta requested doing so. Could you please tell me what files I need to remove to uninstall that? I would like to revert to normal driving and riding cameras. Also, is there any way to disable that warning from popping up every time once I remove the additional package? Thank you!
Just a quick note that in my test with the virtual monitor over the weekend (Cyberpunk only again in this case) I noticed that with the exact same in-game settings I got slightly worse performance on the virtual display. No idea why, but it was absolutely repeatable. I may order a cheap 4K DP headless display adaptor and try it, just to see if there is a difference or if it is simply overhead due to there being a second display enabled; it’s something I was planning to do anyway before you came up with the virtual display concept.
Weird stuff you are experiencing occasionally. Can’t replicate that here at all in a brief check, but will spend a bit more time on checking more thoroughly later.
If ‘slightly worse’ means something in the range of 5% or so, you will have to do at least a dozen test runs under 100% identical circumstances (i.e. an unchangeable self running benchmark scene) to be reasonably sure it’s not just measurement inaccuracy.
@Ralf The only weird thing I currently have going in me even wanting to bother with Cyberpunk. With the steam+Cyberpunk crash that I had going on fixed everything is good again. Cyberpunk just has some weirdness when pushed to my HMD through vorpX that I don’t experience elsewhere; like a complete unwillingness to give me 45fps. I can maintain 4K, RT on, DLSS off at 37.5/75 nearly everywhere in the game, but it won’t give me 45fps at 4K DLSS set to Ultra Performance and RT off! No kidding. It’s not vorpX specifically, as everything works just as it should pushed to my 3D display, and it’s not even vorpX + PiTool + HMD as I can push other titles very hard without this issue. It’s just Cyberpunk.
Bring up something like FPS VR for a couple of minutes and set cyberpunk to your actual display, now switch it to your virtual display at the exact same resolution and settings. I see an immediate 5% or so GPU usage jump. Of course, since Cyberpunk has problems with increasing GPU usage just by entering and exiting the menus, this could just be Cyberpunk itself. I have yet to test that particular issue with any other title.
If what you see was caused by the virtual display driver, you would see your GPU usage go up by just enabling it without a game running. The display driver does the exact same things on the desktop as it does in games. It’s not something that kicks in when games are running, it’s not even aware of that. The amount of work it has to do doesn’t change when you launch a game, and it certainly doesn’t use a significant amount of GPU resources under any imaginable circumstances. Maybe some more PiTool quirks, a weird effect caused by having other tools hooked into the pipeline alongside vorpX or whatever.
I plan on testing it more this evening if I can find the time. I leave FPSVR off most of the time as I like to keep as few possible failure-points as possible, but it’s cake to toggle it on and test in a few titles that properly support switching displays in-game. That should tell us if the issue is most likely Cyberpunk or PiTool.
(P.S. I still wanna know how to uninstall the little piece of vorpX that changes the driving and riding cameras in Cyberpunk. Just not necessary for the way I play the title, so I prefer the default cameras. If/when you have time to let me know. Not a terribly pressing issue.)
All I can tell you is what I told you above anyway. The virtual display driver does not hook into a game’s graphics pipeline. If it would tax your GPU in any way, it would do so outside of games in the exact same way as in games.
So whatever your further tests may show, you have to look somewhere else to find what causes your issue. Also, as said above, if your ‘issue’ is in the range of 5% or so, you have to run a reasonable amount of tests to determine what you see is not just random fluctuation.
As much as I’d like to get to the bottom of stuff you report here, when it is neither replicable nor even sounds technically plausible, I have to prioritize other things.
Let me know if you experience any increased GPU usage outside of games with the virtual display enabled. Not being able to replicate your issue here aside, that would be the only valid indication the virtual display could be the cause for what you see. Until then I consider this matter closed.
I’m having a display issue with Cyberpunk maybe someone can help.. vorpx hooks the game ok, but FullVR is stuck in Edgepeek mode. I can’t seem to un-Edgepeek. The usual mouse button i use doesn’t seem to do anything. Does CP have some special key mapping for edgepeek ?
TIA
@Ralf. Thanks for your feedback. I work in K-8 EDU and admit that often leads to “thinking things through” out loud (here) instead of privately. I will try to avoid doing this so much in the future.
To be clear, even if I don’t go through my entire testing process I DO rigorously test with controlled benchmarks (in-game when possible). I *always* start at the basics when encountering a problem; Has something changed in my BIOS, have I installed anything new (even just a driver update), is my cooling still working properly? I use benchmark software (historically Cinebench and Furmark, but currently I usually just run 3D Mark to do the “extreme” GPU + CPU stress test) to double-check that performance has not degraded for some unknown reason or an instability crept in. I don’t believe anything I see just once.
I, do, however, keep coming back to Cyberpunk after long lapses in playing it, and I forget about all the Cyberpunk-specific foibles. Or maybe I’m just overly-optimistic that somehow they have finally been fixed. (hahahahaha, right…)
I have tested this particular behavior (GPU usage with the vorpX virtual monitor enabled) and although I noticed that in Cyberpunk I belatedly realized it’s a terrible title in which to do any testing. In Cyberpunk my performance will alter dramatically simply by switching from real screen to virtual, or back, or back and forth. Using the built-in benchmark I repeatably see my max fps drop by 10-20fps. Sometimes my minimum and average also simultaneously go up. I have to Quit and re-run the game and all is good again. It’s just a completely and utterly unreliable title to try and use to figure out anything (other than figuring out “this is a Cyberpunk problem”). Like many (everyone?) even in 100% vanilla Cyberpunk I see repeatable, slowly decreasing performance just from entering and exiting menus, or even when visiting certain locations which will then cause performance to drop everywhere until you reload or quit and reload. It’s just the worst.
BUT, I do also see performance differences in the only other title I currently have installed that has a built-in benchmark: Far Cry Primal. That title consistently and repeatably benchmarks FASTER on the vorpX virtual display than it does when on my physical monitor. Every time. Identical settings. Absolutely repeatable. As you’ve said, this does not seem to be vorpX related in any way. vorpX was just the first thing that came to mind because it’s been so long since I’ve run multiple screens on any game rig. I *think* what I’m seeing is typical of 3D acceleration on Windows machines with 2 or more monitors, especially if those aren’t running the same refresh. It’s been probably 12 years since I used multiple displays on a gaming rig, but it definitely used to cause a bit of unanticipated behavior.
(BTW; if you ever do implement a longer edit window I’m one of those forum users who will go back and edit my original posts with more concise info. For example, I would have edited the post where I initially noticed the differing performance with something like “EDIT: For anyone else seeing differing performance on the virtual monitor I have now tested further and this does not appear to be vorpX related but rather a game-specific issue with Cyberpunk, which was the title in use when I first noticed this behavior.”
Looking forward to the next Beta!
Hey Ralf…
Was wondering about something you said earlier about it always being better to hook into a game, as opposed to using desktop viewer.
Is there a way to hook into a game that has GEO-11 3d outputting in SBS or OU?
I occasionally use desktop viewer to take advantage of some of the great Helix Mod patches and play games with GEO11 in 3D.
If I have Vorpx running, it doesn’t like the DLL’s that it finds in the directories that are there from those shader fixes.
Also… even if it did, there would be no way of then asking vorpx to display in SBS or OU, correct?
Just curious if this would be possible. For you to hook into a game and then ask Vorpx to output in either of those formats.
All the additions to desktop viewer sound amazing, so this might be a moot point, anyway.
But when you mentioned it being preferable to hook into games, I wondered if it might be doable.This is a scenario that i thought about as well and wondered if it would be possible. There are quite a few ways (even native in some titles) to get a SBS/OU stream and the new vorpX Desktop Viewer sounds ideal for this. Most other desktop viewers have big problems with frame pacing, so i actually had given up on that SBS thing…
At least one reason for hooking into games being better than using desktop capture (inevitable stutter due to monitor/headset refresh rate mismatch) is moot with the vorpX beta when using the virtual display driver it comes with, which automatically matches the headset refresh rate.
Other advantages remain however: being able to store game specific settings, more options for vorpX to handle tracking/input etc.
There is a profile called ‘SBS 3D Base’ downloadable from the cloud that you can try. Yoiu can use that for experiments. Can’t promise it will work for everything you throw at it, but it’s always worth a shot. vorpX will still display the warning if something else is hooked into a game too, but if that something doesn’t actually cause a fatal conflict, you can safely ignore the warning.
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