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When did I tell him to permanently disable the auto setting?
How can he disable the setting per game if the game doesn’t start so this menu is not accessible?Your response to my attempt to help is not based on what I’m actually saying. It is “bad advice” the same way any other user’s suggestion in the past weeks is “bad advice”. Repeating one and the same thing about what is good and what is bad without any technical useful information simply means there is no more customer support for Skyrim – a game where most of the players have custom setups. If you have a problem then it is your own fault – don’t try to debug it, don’t ask for help, don’t try to help others. Anything you can try is “bad”, the only “good” is whatever the black box decides to do, even if it doesn’t exactly work.
So I don’t see how my advice was bad, all I see is an attempt to avoid giving any specific technical information to help users debug their problems. It is here in this thread, the same yesterday with my problems with the resolution and with any other attempt of an user to ask a specific question to help them troubleshoot.The thing is – Skyrim is a very popular game played by lot’s of people who want to tweak it a lot, so at some point helpful hints and info will need to be given.
This is new for the forums. Until recently people discussing specific SKyrim problems were left alone to discuss and exchange ideas. Now after every such post there is an official rebuttal that repeats one and the same thing regardless of what the user was actually saying. That’s why I said that if the community support is no longer welcomed here then no problems, we’ll stop trying to help.
I advised disabling all the auto settings in order to debug a problem where the game won’t start at all – so no access to the per game option. How was that wrong and what other alternative is there? I can be wrong, of course, but I still do not understand what was wrong in the idea.
It is obvious that disabling the auto settings doesn’t make VorpX function as before as it will do quite a lot of things regardless.
Anyway, we are going in circles and I’m not really interested in arguing. I have tried to explain my point of view with arguments and examples. This is what I believe giving meaningful and helpful feedback is about. I’m not saying how it should be, I’m explaining what is better for me and the others like me. Seems that any advice given by users on the forum in the past weeks is pronounced “bad” and it is obvious community support is no longer welcome. So I’ll stop trying to help, no problems.
The reason that so many different Skyrim setups exist and work is because people have the basic information required to build and troubleshoot them. For example I know how MO fits with LOOT, fits with the game, fits with all other tools and mods I use. Until a month ago I used to know how VorpX fits in all this. At first it seemed there is a way to make it behave as before, now it is clear there is no.
People who play Skyrim (and even Oldrim) in 2018 are all “tweakers”, for us a change that introduces so many unknowns and black box elements is not “for better”.
Which MO ini is it trying to use? Why is it using so low resolution for my system? The reply that “it knows best” doesn’t really help.
I’m not trying to be confrontational, there is a way to make both the casual players and the Skyrim players (most of them tweakers) happy.The way things stand now there is practically no support for Skyrim problems. The official position is (as before) “can not account for all different setups” – which is understandable, but now a community support is also impossible, as there is a lot of vital basic information missing.
Yes, that’s what I meant – disable it to see if it will run. Not keep it disabled.
He can’t disable “per game” in the in-game menu if the game doesn’t start.Since the MO integration is another black box debugging it for the user is more or less fire shots in the dark and see what happens. How does VorpX know if the game is started via MO? How does it know which profile is active? Those are the kind of questions the user needs to know the answer to in order to troubleshoot their setup. I know this kind of answers for all the tools and apps I use – I might not know how they work, but I know what they do and how they are supposed to interact with each-other and work together. The problem with the latest VorpX update is that not only it takes away too much of the user’s control, but also the possibility to have a basic understanding of what it is doing. I understand it is important to make it plug and play and offer a painless setup for the novice users but there should be a balance.
About the “Skyrim pro’s”. It is a 6 year old game. Most of the people who still play it do it because they have created their own perfect modded setup that offers them something that no other game does. So most of the people playing it today have (or are trying to have) their specific setups – enabled by their understanding about how the tools and mods work together and how to debug and troubleshoot. A “black box” type of tool added to the mix is a serious problem.
As I said – it is a 6 years old game. The people who still play it are mostly “pro’s” – tweakers. The more people buy VR sets and VorpX the more serious the problem with the inability to troubleshoot VorpX problems because of lack of basic information will get.
For the past weeks the response to any suggestions about debugging has been “don’t change the defaults or bad things will happen”. This will simply not work with the Skyrim crowd that is, 6 years after the game’s release, all about tweaking and modding. At some point there needs to be some basic information about the way VorpX works and integrates with the game and the other tools. Or an “advanced mode” where it will work exactly it did before the update – when everything was easy to understand, predict and troubleshoot.Try to run Skyrim from the other MO.
Or check to never change game settings in VorpX Config and see if it runs this way. One of the situations where I have seen this way of crashing is if it tries to run with an unsupported resolution.The reason I asked those questions is because I’m trying to understand what is happening on my PC with Oldrim. I have it set to 1680 as preferred, I also have it set to 2 upscale and yet the performance is way better than it is possible. Also when changing the preferred resolution I don’t see big changes happening. Do I need to restart the game for them to take an effect?
I have this in the ini file at the moment: iSize H=1460, iSize W=1933, but I don’t know if VorpX is writing to the files or is it simply ignoring those settings.So the fact that I have perfect performance with upscale of 2 leads me to believe that the base resolution it is choosing for me is not good enough. And because it is already times 2 there is nothing I can do to get a better resolution. And seems there is no way to see what it choose for me. Or maybe the values in the ini are exactly what it did choose?
Or – is it changing resolutions continuously based on performance? I noticed that the framerate gets better shortly after I enter a “heavy” cell? For example I go to the streets of a town. At this point I expect the fps to be around 20 – 25. And at first it is, but then it goes back to 40 – 45. At least when I tested earlier today. If this is the case then in Skyrim it is impossible to get a good auto – resolution outdoors and the game will be blurry for the most of the time (as most of it happens outdoors).
But all of this is just guessing, hence my questions. It is all about options – until now I knew how to setup VorpX to work perfectly for my preferences, right now I’m not sure I know.Cool, the ini solution is perfect, thanks!
About the feedback – the message has no value in a real use situation (for me). If the user has decided to map the DirectVR switch to a button (which is not by default) then they have a use case in mind and activate it when they need it. And in those cases it is quite obvious if DirectVR is on or off.
In practice the shortcut is needed when the control is detached from the player character (free cam or animations) and DirectVR can’t handle that situation which is immediately obvious by the fact that there is no more head tracking.
For example one of my uses of this shortcut is together with a free cam. I have the free cam and the DirectVR switch mapped to the same key and whenever I feel like flying around or checking out different items or spaces around me, I press the button and everything works.
For me this message is the same as a message that would appear every time when I press “w” to inform me that I have taken a step forward. However I do understand that there may be use cases that I’m not aware of where such a message has a meaning, that’s why I asked for an option to disable it (together with the other 3 similar messages).Added:
I understand some people will consider this a small problem, but I do believe the conventional UI elements are a bad thing for VR. I do use a HUD removal mod for Skyrim, I spent quite some time editing the ini files of FO4VR to hide as much of the UI as possible, I have disabled the Steam overlay completely so no popups for achievements, I did refund Mage’s tale because of it’s constant “Game saved” message that can’t be disabled. I understand different people have different priorities, but for me the flat UI elements and logic in VR is a serious problem. Just wanted to explain why I’m complaining so much about the messages.Continuing the topic of annoying, impossible to disable messages attacking the player, there are 2 new added with the new update. Now when you enable or disable DirectVR with a keyboard shortcut there is a message shown telling you what you just did. I know it was enabled/disabled, I just pressed the button!
How do I disable those?Maybe running as Admin was a MO thing, not sure. However I seem to recall running as Admin because of NMM some time ago. But try with that setting on in VorpX Config and see if it helps.
The easiest way to get fresh ini files is to run the game once without the files been there so it will recreate it. I’m currently using the default ini files as I haven’t had the time to find out what exactly is the problem in the old files. Also I’m not sure I understand how this new VorpX version deals with the ini’s yet.
Just to add – I’m not saying those things will fix the problems. Those are ideas for what to try if the game was broken by the update. Those things were the problems I had in my setup, but in your setup it can be a different problem.
Oldrim + MO works with the new version. Two things to try to debug:
1. It seems the updates still reset the VorpX settings, so make sure to enable Run as Administrator in VorpX config after every update. There is a warning shown when you do that, but if you play modded Skyrim you need this enabled.
2. It seems the new VorpX versions breaks with some ini optimisations that were working until now. I haven’t narrowed it down yet, but for me the game was unplayable after the update until I got a fresh set of ini files.
Copy the current ini files somewhere and delete them. Start the game in a normal way and quit it. It should have created fresh ini’s.
If using MO – copy/paste the content of the new ini files into the ini editor of MO.Fixed the problem. Removed the ini files and let the game create new ones.
There were lots of fixes and customization there, not sure which one of them was creating the problem. Might investigate further on the next few days.
Seems now it works perfectly.Not a single report that sounds even remotely like yours.
There was also not a single report about the screen mirror been black, yet it is the case for me both on my previous and my new PC. There are too many variables involved in order to assume that what works on one setup will work exactly the same way on another. All I ask for is a possibility to debug my own problems myself, I’m not expecting ready answers.
Going back to the OPs question – what about the possibility to add an option to choose between auto or manual install of updates?
I want to explain this further in order to avoid confusion.
Running a stable modded Skyrim requires lots of reading, experimenting and time. Any small change in the setup can have bigger consequences.
There are two important elements in the process:
1. You can take it step by step and activate/deactivate/update mods, tools, drivers one by one when you are ready to test them.
2. You can always disable one of them and/or revert to an older version that you are familiar with and/or know that it works. So you can choose to stick to an older version if it suits you better.This is valid for all tools and mods – even for the GPU drivers released by Nvidia, even for the Windows updates. Except VorpX – the update will come when it comes, regardless if you are ready to deal with it or not. Once it arrives there is no way to go back.
This complicates everything and makes the debugging/testing way harder.In my specific case right now – my previously perfectly running setup is now completely broken and unplayable. Is it because of the update? I have no idea. As far as I know the update is the only thing that changed in the mean time. But I have no way to test that as I have no way to clean revert to the previous version.
Even if the problem is somewhere else, reverting to the older version would help a lot. Because when you are looking for a component that is not working correctly you would want to know that all other parts of the system are working as expected.
Right now I’m facing an equation with too many unknowns and I don’t even know if I have the will and the energy to start solving it. Or simply abandon everything.I understand that the point of the update is to make the system as much plug and play as possible for the benefit of those who do not care to read and press a button or two, but it should not come with a price for those of us who have put a lot of effort in our setups and have been loyal customers and supporters for quite some time now.
An option to revert to the previous version – even temporarily, is extremely important. Please give us that option.
Go offline before starting it is the only option that exists now I believe.
I’m still waiting for Ralf to tell me how can I use a backup in order to recover the previous version.
I believe VorpX needs an option to disable automatic updates and ask before updating and a way to revert to the previous version.
I don’t know if it is because of the update. It is possible that it is not. It was working perfectly one week ago and it doesn’t now. Different things can happen in a week, but the one thing I know about is the update. Since there is no way to roll back and test I have no way of knowing at the moment.
I have a backup with the old version and I’m going to try to use it. Is the update changing anything else than the files in Program files and Program Data?