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Quick note (not related to vorpX but will likely cause performance issues on Pimax hardware):
Stay away from “Pimax Client” and stick with PiTool for now. Performance in the majority of titles is significantly impacted by Pimax Client as opposed to PiTool, including vorpX performance which dropped about 10-20% – or about the same as the most-impacted native VR titles (AC, for example, also sees dramatic performance issues under Pimax Client.) This experience with poor Pimax Client performance has been supported by other OpenMR forum users and has already taken into consideration as many other potential factors as reasonably possible (updated GPU drivers etc.)
@Ralf, Well, it would probably help if really laid out the steps I took before mentioning something, but my posts are already lengthy as heck…
I have already tested that process: 1) Set refresh rate in PiTool to 90 2) Enable Virtual Monitor manually 3) Look at refresh in Advanced setting for the virtual monitor 4) Disable Virtual Monitor 5) Set refresh to 75hz 5) Re-enable virtual monitor 6) Check refresh (still 90) 7) Disable virtual monitor and completely quit vorpX 8) Launch vorpX again and re-enable virtual monitor 9) Check refresh again (still 90)
Only thing I haven’t tried yet is doing a full restart after I change the refresh in PiTool. (PiTool does report the correct refresh to SteamVR and PimaxXR, so it *probably* isn’t PiTool, but that software truly is trash, so…) I’ll try that but will report results via. email as requested!
OK, here is the vsync dea: It’s not respecting the current refresh of my HMD but instead assuming a refresh of 90hz. So if I set it to 60 (for example) a game won’t stop gaining frames until it hits 90. I hadn’t noticed that as my quality settings never allowed them to get that high. So it is (likely) working properly for 90/90 and 45/90 configurations, but not for 60hz or 75hz configurations. Looking at Windows advanced display properties I can see that the refresh is still set as 90 even if I have actually set the HMD to less than that.
Oh, and the the display scaling issues I reported a while back; turns out that’s a known Windows quantity. The OS does not like scaling when combined with multiple screens. IF you have two displays plugged in all the time, and they are both set to the same scaling factor, apparently you can get it to work. I now have a headless display adapter (for testing purposes), and plugging that in / unplugging it messes up my nice scaled display. So does activating the vorpX virtual display. Nothing you can do about it, it’s just a Windows thing. I’ve switched back to regular 1080p and living with my icons getting knocked all over the place. Oh well.@Ralf, Well, I don’t use the gestures in Cyberpunk as I run cinema mode. I do think I’ll like gestures a lot once I really delve into them. The issue with titles like FO3 (currently) being that commonly-used functions require some major finger-contortions or too much time on the Index controllers to access them. Having gestures that effectively replace some of those functions would help a lot. That’s probably the title I will test most once default gestures are added to it.
I’ve looked at the vsync thing pretty thoroughly, so I don’t know where it could have gone wrong. Tested with Witcher 3 nextgen and A Plague Tale Innocence. Nvidia CP is set to “Use application settings” for vsync, and both titles have vsync on. Set HMD refresh to 60hz and both titles ran way up above 60 in certain scenes (both titles pegged the GPU and ran maximum possible frame-rates. So totally uncapped except by machine performance limits.) I’ve settled on 45/90 for Witcher 3 now, as it’s easy to hit even with RT, but I will double-check a Plague Tale again later today just to be absolutely certain I didn’t miss the vsync toggle.
Could easily be a weird PiTool driver issue though. That software is currently as close to malicious software as legit software can get… grumble grumble.I’ve already deep-dived this pretty extensively yesterday and overall it’s very impressive.
A quick note for Pimax users (and possibly others; I no longer have any non-Pimax HMDs to try) – I’ve found that I have to change the HMD Sync methods depending on how I am using vorpX and/or between different games. For example, Cyberpunk and general gaming appears to like either Slow/Multithread on, or Fast/Multithread on. vorpX Desktop itself likes Fast/Multithread ON. However, playing a non-supported game on the virtual screen (so, no direct vorpX hook) wants the “Default” – which I believe is Fast/Multithread off – So I have to run vorpX Desktop one way, and then switch that Sync mode once I’m in-game). Anyway, don’t assume that the sync mode that works best in one case will apply universally.
Performance in Cyberpunk in particular is definitely slightly up. Mostly I’m at 45/90 now at considerable quality with RT, but a handful of scenes still dip. Where I was getting 37ish I’m now seeing more like 41/42.
Non-hooked games running through vorpX Desktop Theater Mode (whatever you want to call it) do NOT respect vsync. I was able to resolve this by implementing manual framerate limits (either in-game if supported or through the Nvidia control panel.) Hence I now have a reliable Witcher 3 DX12 with mods running at 45/90. Note that both the vorpX and FPS VR are reporting the Sync rate, not the actual rate at which the game is running in this case. I noticed that my GPU was being nailed at about 98% usage under all scenarios and I was getting a lot of stuttering. Turned on an in-game FPS counter and found that titles were running as many frames as they could all the time (no vsync) and stuttering whenever they exceeded the HMD refresh. Not a huge deal as manual limits are easy to impose, but something users might need to know. Despite those few minor issues, the experience is MUCH better than it used to be as the refresh is not tied to my physical monitor – so I no longer have to hit 60 or limit to 30 in order to get non-stuttering play. So that part seems to be working exactly as Ralf intended.
So overall a VERY positive experience with this new beta.
Can’t wait to see those gestures added to more games. I’ve never really found a title that worked well enough for me to adapt to it using my Index controllers instead of my gamepad (even really well supported titles like FO3). I would love to be able to lift my arm for the pip-boy, etc. etc.
A complex subject for sure. I could see several routes, and am personally happy to pay a bit more for vorpX over time. Nobody here wants to see vorpX go the way of other 3D products. As a general rule I dislike subscription software, and even though it does make those companies plenty of $, it also drives away a lot of potential future users, as well as a lot of long-time users. Take Adobe as an example; no longer a part of any workplace I’m associated with, but was at one point absolutely dominant. Users have moved to products like Pixelmator Pro, which may not offer 100% of the functionality, but offer a very compelling feature set in a product that can be purchased for a reasonable price and then maybe have a small upgrade cost on a major revision only.
I’ll try to keep my thoughts brief (hahahahaha, right…)
1) Charge a small amount per-game for the profiles users actually use. It could be built into the vorpX client (a real PITA I bet). So a customer has bought the base product for a reasonable price, and if they don’t really use it for many games they aren’t out a lot more $. You could include an ‘out of the box’ base number (100?) of supported games, and then charge for the additional profiles. The user would click the game title, see “Basic Z3D Profile for Starfield: $1.99”, or “Advanced G3D & AFR support for Starfield: $5.99” or something like that. Enter the card data (have it stored) and *bang* they’ve got the profile. You could even figure out a way to monetize profiles created by users, IF they wish to take part. If RJK builds 10 perfect G3D profiles, maybe 50% goes to Ralf and 50% to the profile creator when a users buys a customer-created profile? You get the concept. (I expect implementation of this might really suck though.) This would also be a way for Ralf to feel like he isn’t wasting his time refining profiles, since those profiles would immediately produce at least a small return. (I would be happy to pay for perfected G3D profiles for games that already have Z3D only, or a less-than-perfect G3D experience.)
2) Charge for major product upgrade cycles. So much simpler than my first suggestion, but with some downsides. For example, no matter how good your product is, some people will have problems with the new revision, and/or simply like the prior version better for whatever reason. These people will be VERY vocal about their dislike to the new version they “paid for.”
3) Charge a very small subscription fee for a certain tier of the product only. For example, maybe all Z3D profiles are included, but all more advanced profiles (G3D) are subscription based. IMHO this would have to be a fairly low price-point as people are getting overwhelmed with subscription services of all kinds.
@RJK: I’ll try some more of your profiles if you get time. I admit that I notice rendering issues that many people overlook or just don’t seem to care about. I would be *overjoyed* to find properly working G3D profiles of some titles (no shadow issues, no disabled shadows, no lighting issues, etc.) If I use some profiles that work really well I’m absolutely happy to donate. If I haven’t donated already it’s probably because I haven’t found a G3D profile that works as I wish for any title for which I needed one.
@Ralf: You are basically the last 3D solution out there for old 3D systems as well. I know you’re full-speed-ahead into the VR experience, but there is an untapped / abandoned market out there. Add a few more G3D profiles and more 3D modes for old displays and projectors, and hopefully the word will get out in those communities that used to rely on other products.
A properly structured forum, like this one, is vastly preferable to the simplified, extremely linear, almost ‘stream of consciousness’ style “forums” that are currently hip & vogue but largely useless.
The next beta will auto switch to the virtual monitor by just launching the desktop viewer and putting on your headset. vorpX will take care of switching off physical displays. Was quite an endeavour to ensure that the display config can’t get messed up permanently under various worst case scenarios when doing that, but now I’m reasonably sure to have that covered.
That sounds great Ralf. I really look forward to giving it a try. Sounds massively useful for games like FO3 (which I still routinely play through vorpX), in-which I have to continually muck about with the ini files and manually edit my preferred mode and resolution (because FO3 will “auto detect” and overwrite your edits over and over again due to perfectly normal activities such as updating your drivers.)
I guess I haven’t really looked yet, but my understanding is that the gesture system will be semi-universal? I’ll be able to create my own gestures if I wish, in titles like the aforementioned FO3? Or am I better off waiting until you have added custom gestures on a title-by-title basis? (Speaking of Aliens and gestures. I still have a working AvP on my Atari Jaguar. Someone needs to remake that for VR. Scary.)
Finally; as long as the vorpX virtual monitor isn’t loaded at windows start, wouldn’t a hard restart (not that we want to have to do that very often) always fix any “worse case” monitor config issue? Bios would detect the physical monitor as usual and Windows should automatically choose the only detected monitor to display on? At least, that would be the behavior I would expect.
Far Cry Primal looks great and runs great through vorpX, but the game itself is definitely ‘meh’ in my book.
Pimax 8K-X. Absolutely hands-down the best HMD I’ve ever had on, WHEN you can make use of the FOV and clarity. With a 4090 I usually can, but there are still plenty of titles I have to run at Normal FOV rather than wide (I don’t use Small – which is should be noted is STILL larger than most other HMDs out there.) The performance issues manifest anytime a dev hasn’t realized than some HMDs (even the Index) have canted displays. Eventually this will in-theory become the norm, since the entire “you are wearing horse-blinders” effect of most HMDs greatly reduces immersion in what is supposed to be an immersive experience.
The PIMAX ecosystem is a PITA however, so you’ve got to take that into consideration. So when you can make use of it, it’s simply flabbergasting, and when you can’t it’s annoying AF. I run AC at insane resolutions (160% Steam SS) and Wide FOV with a ton of lighting and weather mods and it’s almost brutally good – incredible fidelity, zero SDE, extremely wide FOV (but, as noted, with somewhat distorted edges. Those don’t bother me at all, whereas “nothing at all being there except the black inside of an HMD” bothers me a lot on other HMDs – everyone is different). Every time I curse the Pimax foibles I spend a few hours in the that and realize it’s all worth it, as nothing else can really come close (maybe a Varjo? I don’t know, never tried one of those.)@cole00 – Many of the more recent racing sims directly support VR, so you won’t have to force all of them into VR through vorpX. Unless you have an absurdly powerful modern laptop built with gaming in mind you might consider an external GPU. I have NOT researched if there is increased latency using an external GPU. If there is, that solution may not work for you. But it’s worth a try as the vast (vast) majority of laptops probably won’t give you a great experience in VR; either native or through vorpX.
(OT: Avid racing sim guy too. If you don’t have it yet get the now-nearly free Assetto Corsa (NOT ACC). For one thing, it’s just a very good sim. But it’s also very undemanding, so it runs extremely well in VR. It is a title with a dedicated VR mode. There are mods that will give you night, thunderstorms, fireworks, rain, more tracks, more cars, you name it. Hands-down the best sim I’ve ever driven.)@Ralf The mod you are looking for is Gervant First Person and it is absolutely brilliant. Full control over when you are in 1st v.s. 3rd person by context. Witcher 3 has animation issues with first person combat unless you run something that greatly slow game-time, for example, so if you prefer you can simply have GFP switch to 3rd person for combat. It has FOV controls, animation controls, a VR mode that hides your body if you prefer when in 1st person. It’s a very long list of features and all of them work pretty darn well.
IMHO you should start with that mod as a baseline for anything you do that’s Witcher 3 + vorpX related because that mod has already done a LOT of the work that you would otherwise need to do. I’ll certainly never play Witcher 3 without it (well, unless you implemented an entire set of similar features through vorpX, but that sounds like a huge amount of work.)
Unfortunately Witcher 3 (DX12 mode) is not currently supported through vorpX so I’m not able to say how well GFP plays with vorpX. Hoping an future vorpX release will work.
@Ralf. Thanks for your feedback. I work in K-8 EDU and admit that often leads to “thinking things through” out loud (here) instead of privately. I will try to avoid doing this so much in the future.
To be clear, even if I don’t go through my entire testing process I DO rigorously test with controlled benchmarks (in-game when possible). I *always* start at the basics when encountering a problem; Has something changed in my BIOS, have I installed anything new (even just a driver update), is my cooling still working properly? I use benchmark software (historically Cinebench and Furmark, but currently I usually just run 3D Mark to do the “extreme” GPU + CPU stress test) to double-check that performance has not degraded for some unknown reason or an instability crept in. I don’t believe anything I see just once.
I, do, however, keep coming back to Cyberpunk after long lapses in playing it, and I forget about all the Cyberpunk-specific foibles. Or maybe I’m just overly-optimistic that somehow they have finally been fixed. (hahahahaha, right…)
I have tested this particular behavior (GPU usage with the vorpX virtual monitor enabled) and although I noticed that in Cyberpunk I belatedly realized it’s a terrible title in which to do any testing. In Cyberpunk my performance will alter dramatically simply by switching from real screen to virtual, or back, or back and forth. Using the built-in benchmark I repeatably see my max fps drop by 10-20fps. Sometimes my minimum and average also simultaneously go up. I have to Quit and re-run the game and all is good again. It’s just a completely and utterly unreliable title to try and use to figure out anything (other than figuring out “this is a Cyberpunk problem”). Like many (everyone?) even in 100% vanilla Cyberpunk I see repeatable, slowly decreasing performance just from entering and exiting menus, or even when visiting certain locations which will then cause performance to drop everywhere until you reload or quit and reload. It’s just the worst.
BUT, I do also see performance differences in the only other title I currently have installed that has a built-in benchmark: Far Cry Primal. That title consistently and repeatably benchmarks FASTER on the vorpX virtual display than it does when on my physical monitor. Every time. Identical settings. Absolutely repeatable. As you’ve said, this does not seem to be vorpX related in any way. vorpX was just the first thing that came to mind because it’s been so long since I’ve run multiple screens on any game rig. I *think* what I’m seeing is typical of 3D acceleration on Windows machines with 2 or more monitors, especially if those aren’t running the same refresh. It’s been probably 12 years since I used multiple displays on a gaming rig, but it definitely used to cause a bit of unanticipated behavior.
(BTW; if you ever do implement a longer edit window I’m one of those forum users who will go back and edit my original posts with more concise info. For example, I would have edited the post where I initially noticed the differing performance with something like “EDIT: For anyone else seeing differing performance on the virtual monitor I have now tested further and this does not appear to be vorpX related but rather a game-specific issue with Cyberpunk, which was the title in use when I first noticed this behavior.”
Looking forward to the next Beta!
I plan on testing it more this evening if I can find the time. I leave FPSVR off most of the time as I like to keep as few possible failure-points as possible, but it’s cake to toggle it on and test in a few titles that properly support switching displays in-game. That should tell us if the issue is most likely Cyberpunk or PiTool.
(P.S. I still wanna know how to uninstall the little piece of vorpX that changes the driving and riding cameras in Cyberpunk. Just not necessary for the way I play the title, so I prefer the default cameras. If/when you have time to let me know. Not a terribly pressing issue.)